storing syrup in a tank under vacuum

[The Spouter]

Anybody out there have experience storing syrup under vacuum in a tank? Wondering how much vacuum is necessary and if syrup will store okay.

[DrTimPerkins]

Anybody out there have experience storing syrup under vacuum in a tank? Wondering how much vacuum is necessary and if syrup will store okay.

Lots of people do. They're called drums that are hot-packed.

[brookledge]

Wondering if you pull vacuum under a container and it has not been hot packed to kill bacteria won't it still spoil. I totally understand when you hot pack a vacuum is created as it cools. But to do it on a cold filled drum I think it will still mold
Keith

[maple flats]

Vacuum does not have the ability to kill mold spores.

[DrTimPerkins]

Vacuum does not have the ability to kill mold spores.

A great variety of microbes are anerobic (don't require oxygen), so a vacuum will not bother them at all. What is more common in tank storage is to top off the tank with nitrogen, which prevents SOME types of microrganisms from growing.

[lew]

I have known of a couple of producers who stored their syrup in a tank with UV lights mounted in them. Syrup went in hot from the filter press and the UV light was on 24 hrs a day. Can't say that I know how well it worked, but they did it for years.

[The Spouter]

Thanks for the replies. So now I think a more pointed question. I want to set up a vacuum tank on a 400 gallon vacuum tank filled with syrup. Will it amount to anymore than the hot packing such as is done in a barrel? Any other considerations? Again, thanks for the help.

[michiganfarmer2]

ummmm not to be rude, but you were just told that vacuum wont help anything.

If you arent going to hotpack, Id be more inclined to use UV lights. Shuold be much cheaper than refrigeration

[mapleack]

Play it safe, buy drums, hot pack. 400 gallons of good syrup = 12 grand. 400 gal of spoiled syrup = 0 grand. Good luck.

[markct]

why would you want to store that much syrup all together, atleast in barrels if a leak happens or some contamination or off flavor etc you simply lost one barrel not a whole 8 to 10 barrels worth!

[BryanEx]

400 gallons of good syrup = 12 grand. 400 gal of spoiled syrup = 0 grand.
Pretty good point in my opinion.

[brookledge]

I agree with markct. I can't understand why you would want to mix that much syrup together. Unless you are a very large producer making 100s of gal per day. A small producer that would add to the container each day will end up with 1 container of grade B by the time you mix all the grades together. and if any commercial is added then it will probably grade out as C.
Keith

[Thad Blaisdell]

I say great idea. I think everybody (in Canada) should do this. That way there would be a huge demand for my really tasty syrup and it would be worth more.:evil:

[markct]

maybe we should coin the phrase dont put all your syrup in one tank,the new version of dont put all your eggs in one basket!

[The Spouter]

So I guess the answer to my question is that none of you folks that responded have ever done this, so it's just your opinions, no facts. Really hoping this forum would be more help.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Oh no I responded, I think it is a great idea. (for you not me) Exactly what do you see as the advantage to doing this? If it were to work, all of your syrup would be blended, you would have one grade available. If you added some syrup that was not as good you would have a batch of not as good. When you bottle do you plan on bottling all of it?

You have been given advice by many people, of which no one agrees that it would work. Why would you even think of risking a large batch of syrup that you worked so hard to make on a crazy idea. Now if you vacuum sealed it and froze it, that would work. Or just froze it without vacuum. Or just a crazy thought, something I dont think anyone else has tried..... dont tell anyone.... but a shiny new stainless barrel filled and sealed I think that would keep quite well for a while. No vacuum needed. But dont share that little secret.

[Sugarmaker]

The Spouter,
It doesnt sound like many folks do this, "store large amounts of syrup under vacuum". Dont get to discourage about the site. There are a lot of great ideas genetated on here. I have learned a lot and grown because of that knowledge.
I think just like any ag business there are some general rules and then your own ideas and methods that you can try however you want to.
Example: I designed and built a AOF system that was not to the current known specs and it seemed to work fine.
Personally I cant see and harm in trying the vacuum on syrup.
My question would be more like: How long does it take syrup to develop mold assuming that it is at or slightly above the correct density at room temp with no vacuum? My guess might be months? So I would think that the absence of air would extend the time even longer? How long do you plan to keep the 400 gallons in the tank? Maybe take some of the syrup and set it in another container without vacuum and use it as mold growth indicator control sample.
Also even the worst syrup has some value at 1.75 per lb. = $7700
Just my thoughts,
Chris

[markct]

well i think the folks that responded have explained why they dont, or wouldnt do this, thats how we are trying to be helpfull! the vacuum wont offer any anti mold or other spoilage properties to the equation, the only reason the vacuum on a barrel keeps the syrup fresh is that it was created by the hot cooling syrup which sterilized all the airspace in the barrel. i suppose maybe if you hot packed the tank, then drew a vacuum on it that would work, but the vacuum would be an unneccesary step anyhow!

[brookledge]

I told you why I thought it was a bad idea. I made the asumption that you were not a large producer that would make 400 gallons per day or at least every other day. That being said if you made 400 gallons per year and you put it all in the same container you will end up with a 400 gallons that is worth at best half of what it would be worth if it was graded and packed seperately. Mix 1 gal of B with 10 gallons of light amber and see what you get. It won't be light and it wont be medium. now if you put in some off flavored syrup then the whole container is shot.
Look at it this way, Every batch is a little different in some ways the temps, how old the sap is etc. But another thing is mistakes happen. Maybe you wash something and you don't rinse it well enough. if you put that bad syrup in with all the rest now it all taste bad. some off flavors are not really noticeable until the syrup cools.
So I think everyone hear told you why it is not adviseable.
If you want to keep it refrigerated then it would work otherwise it will mold and dergade no matter how much vacuum you have on it if it was not hot packed.
Large packers store each grade in large tanks or silos but they are refrigerated
Keith

[DrTimPerkins]

So I guess the answer to my question is that none of you folks that responded have ever done this, so it's just your opinions, no facts. Really hoping this forum would be more help.

That is probably true, but then again, I've never (at least purposefully) hit myself in the head with a hammer, but I still am pretty sure it wouldn't be such a good idea.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I can tell you 3 things I know for sure.

1)If you don't have the right type of vacuum tank it can and will implode if its not for high vacuum.........I had it happen and I will guarantee you will have one heck of a mess and then a good cry with the loss.

2) I have had mold in bottles that were hot packed and were under vacuum for over a year SO vacuum did diddly squat for mold suppression.

3) When people keep asking the same question 10 different way they are bound and determined to do it anyway. so do it and report back next year.