Intensofire Vs Leader

[sappin]

Hi Folks- I have been a "wall flower" on this great site for many years and for the last three weeks have been diving into every thread I can find. I still can't comfortably make a decision so thought I would post...... I am now ready to upgrade my evaporator for next season. I am trying to decide between the CDL Intensofire 2 in a 30 x 8 with hoods or a Leader Inferno Arch with max flu pan, rev syrup pan, preheater and hood in a 30 x 8. Any recommendations? Many thanks - Andrew

[Reg]

Lapierre force 5 the first the only real gasifier that is the one for you.

[brookledge]

First of all I think the intens fire gen 2 is a gasification arch and the inferno is not. So you are not comparing aples to apples. With the maxflue pan you really need a good arch to reap the benfits. I have the rev pans and like them. With the gasification arches I know some of the manufactuers don't go smaller than 3X12. One question I'd ask is how long do you think you would keep the arch. The inferno is old technology in a sense compared to gassification if you think you will keep it for a long time then maybe it would be wise to go all out now and get the gasification arch
Keith

[sappin]

Keith - I plan on running this new evaporator at least 10 years....hopefully longer!

[Tmeeeh]

I chose the Leader Vortex because it is available in the small 2X10 size and because I like the Max pan and because from my experience Leader sales and service have been good. Our 2X10 evaporates easily 160 GPH. CDL and Lapierre look good too. After watching the others boil, I haven't seen them boil as hard as the vortex. Maybe they do but I haven't seen it. Remember syrup is only finished in the sugarhouse. It's made in the woods, so if the equipment in the sugar house can process the sap quickly and easily you can spend more time in the woods. You are welcome to visit and look at what we have.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

There have been several complaints on here recently about the newer intensofire arches and the problems they have had out of them. Been mostly complaints on the ones purchased recently it seems.

Instead of an inferno, I would look at a Vortex from Leader. Don't think there is much difference in price between a Force 5 and an Intensofire.

[sappin]

Thank you Tim and Brandon! Tim - How often were you loading up the Vortex with wood. One of my concerns is that I burn mostly pine and poplar as the hardwood goes to the farm house wood boiler. Will the Vortex work well on soft wood? It would be nice for one of my wood "gobblers" to be effecient. We burn a lot of wood around here! You have a beautiful farm across the state there! Thanks again - Andrew

[Tmeeeh]

Thank you Tim and Brandon! Tim - How often were you loading up the Vortex with wood. One of my concerns is that I burn mostly pine and poplar as the hardwood goes to the farm house wood boiler. Will the Vortex work well on soft wood? It would be nice for one of my wood "gobblers" to be effecient. We burn a lot of wood around here! You have a beautiful farm across the state there! Thanks again - Andrew

We fire it every 10 minutes with mostly hardwood. We burned 7 cords this year making 1,260 gallons of syrup. We aim for 12% with the RO in actuality it was probably more like 11%. Efficiency goes up as the boiling rate goes down we use a smoke stack thermometer and try to keep it between 800 and 1,000. Burning the smoke with a gasification arch has got to increase efficiency.

[Amber Gold]

From what I understand, the Force 5 loads every 30-45 min. for softwood and 45-60 min. for hardwood. The Force 5 is designed to be efficient and it burns 85-90% (I think) of the available BTU's in the wood. The original Force 5 burns at about the same rate as a standard arch, but is much more efficient. From talking to the designer, this year's Force 5's are designed to burn hotter to get a better boil, but at the sacrifice of some efficiency...I do believe though they are still far more efficient than the vortex. He has also designed smaller arches now and the smallest they currently make is a 2.5x10 (I think), but I think he's working on a 2x8. I don't know why they don't make a flue pan w/ 11" flues, but think they should.

The Vortex is designed to get as much heat out of the arch as it can at the sacrifice of efficiency. You get a lot of fire quick, but still load just as often and a standard arch.

[Dave Y]

Amber Gold is correct on the force 5 . the 30x 10 is currently the smallest one made. I have made syrup on mine for two seasons now and I love it. I don't have an RO , yet. but it saves a lot of work. Before i got the force 5 i was burning 40 cord of wood to make 600 gal of syrup. this year i burned 28 cord of wood to make 1080gal of syrup on a bigger evaporator. the wood i burn is seasoned one year and is 30" long and is 5"-10" in diameter. A lot of work is saved in the wood processing. Also I was firing every 7 minutes to get a 135gal an hr boil. With out the steamaway I put on this year I was firing every 35-45 minutes to get a 200 gal an hour boil. again saving work. with the steam away I get300-350 an hour burning the wood I described. There is no other evaporator currently made that is billed as a gasification arch that is built as well and is as problem free as the force 5. I have had the opportunity to see the CDL unit boil and the Vortex. I also saw the vortex with out pans on it. I am not an expert but I Know what I have and I have seen what others are selling.

[maple2]

we have a 4x12 force 5. with green softwood slabs,we fire every 25min. with hardwood,about every 35min. with part green chunkwood,about every hour. our stack temp. stays around 700 degrees. its not much faster than our old arch but its steady. also, no smoke! they run around $18000

[peckfarm]

Vortex is still new and has some kinks to work out, mostly just smoking issues around the edges. It boils harder than anything I have seen. The Intenso is efficient, however it does not boil hard. In order to boil hard and keep up I have witnessed a 6x16 fired every 8-10 minutes. Have not seen the Force 5. Vortex has 2 fans and no other moving internal controls or parts. The rev pans with Vortex make it possible to have a 1 man operation. I alone fired, drew off and filter pressed into bulk containers the whole season.

[ToadHill]

This year we put in a 3x10 Vortex with Max flue revolution style pans and a SteamAway. I can't find a single significant thing to criticize about it. I have not boiled on the Force 5 so I can't make a fair comparison. We did not experience any smoking issues around the edges as peckfarm mentioned. I have owned a 5x14 Inferno with a SteamAway and an oil fired 5x16 Blazer with a SteamAway. Both good evaporators that worked extremely well, but I would take this setup hands down over either of them. As for the fueling frequency, the only fair way to make that comparison is to compare the size of the evaporator and the boiling rate. I can turn the under fire blower down on my rig and feed it larger wood and stretch the firing times out, but I'm not looking to conserve wood. I want to boil as fast as I can and get done as quick as possible. Yes it's nice to only have to fire every 30-45 minutes, but I guarantee that you will need a much larger evaporator to do that and get the same boiling rate that I get on my 3x10. There is no way you can use the same size evaporator and only fire it every 30-45 minutes and boil as fast as my Vortex. That said, my point is we really need to compare apples to apples in order to be fair. As for workmanship, I think they all make good quality products and that really comes down to the old question "Do you like Fords or Chevy's?" Just my two cents.

[Brent]

Discussions from another Force 5 user went along the lines

you can boil hard
you can fire every 45 minutes
you can burn green wood

just not a the same time.

Too many apple / orange variations.

[Eric McLellan]

If you go with a cross flow pans, I would recommend the reverse for them. It will save you time changing pans every two or three hours. I would still get a third cross flow pan as a spare.

[peckfarm]

Vortex has bee cured of smoking issues. The edges are sealed with a high heat caulk that gets a few cracks during shipping. We had a slightly less than smooth disembarkation from the delivery truck so the cracks were to be expected. All fixed and ready for RO sap and a marcland auto draw in 2012.

[Bruce L]

Peckfarm,what did you unload onto?I am looking around for a trailer to unload onto,then draw into the sugarhouse(down the side of a hill)
Bruce

[tuckermtn]

another option is to find a "rollback" truck- a flat-bed tow truck. Has a sliding tilt bed ramp. Hire him by the hour. Can get it off of a tractor trailer and get it at the right floor level of your sugarhouse.