homemade ro

[robert]

can i use a reverse osmosis from a home water purifier to reduce maple sap down? if so, can someone direct me to a thread that describes the process?

[metalhead62]

look down 5 treads from urs

[robert]

this is our second year producing with only 40 taps. we are just enjoying doing this as a family and have heard that using a reverse osmosis machine will reduce our time to boil. coincidently i have a small residential ro machine in the basement collecting dust and need someone to walk me through the process not knowing any of the procedures on what is involved. it is even worth it? Currently we boil down about 70 gallons of sap in 12 hours on a homemade evaporator. is that good or no?

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

consistent 70 gals on 40 taps is pretty good sap flow. is this an everyday flow ?

[robert]

no....only on the really good days. but we do not boil until we have about 70-80 gal. That way we can start the boil in the morning and be finished bottling before the end of the day. how about some help with the ro?

[Gary in NH]

no....only on the really good days. but we do not boil until we have about 70-80 gal. That way we can start the boil in the morning and be finished bottling before the end of the day. how about some help with the ro?


See below.....lots to read.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=12517

[robert]

yup...i read that one....but it did not seem to be good. 50 gals to 30 gals in 6 hours? i should probably just boil it. i can bring 70 gals to syrup in 10 hours on my wood evaporator.

[Kev]

Robert
what is the rating on you home R/O?

[robert]

what does that mean and how do i find that out? it is an aquafine and looks like it is meant to go under the sink.

[Kev]

what does that mean and how do i find that out? it is an aquafine and looks like it is meant to go under the sink.
it means how much premeate(pure water) does it produce in a day?
It should say it somewhere on it, or at least the model number of the unit so you can find out.
if it is a low gallonage unit. you can change out the membrane and flow restrictor to up the gallonage to at least 100 gpd. Since most membranes produce 2~3 times the amount of "waste water" as pure water.

Since a 100 gpd unit will then produce about 4.16 gal of pure per day(ideal conditions) it will then produce 2 to 3 times that amount of concentrate. So I used 2.5 times 4.16 that give 10.4 gal of concentrate per hour.
Now when we look at your evap rate of 80 gal in 12 hours. that gives you an evap rate of 6.66 gal per hour.
If you use both you will have a combined reduction rate of around 17 gal per hour. All ball park numbers since temp and pressure are both substancial factors in the rate of the RO unit.

[jrgagne99]

Kev-
You need to compare the permeate (i.e water removed) to the evaporation rate, not the concentrate. So the 4.16 gph (not gallons per day) of permeate should be added to his boiler rate of 6.66, and his effective evaporation rate would go to ~10.7 gph. It's over a 50% increase in the water removal rate in his case, the upshot being that the RO can run close to full time, whereas boiling on the evaporator requires near-constant attention. Of coarse, with a single 100 GPD RO unit, he won't get 4.16 gph of permeate when processing cold sap. I was running two 100 gpd membranes and I still only got about 3.5 gph of permeate (see the other "Homemade RO" thread in this section). That's why I'm going to use four 100 gpd membranes next year. I'm hoping for 7 gph permeate. When those membranes die, I'll replace them with 4x150 gpd membranes and hopefully get closer to 11 gph permeate. Its ok for producers of 100 taps or less, but not very feasible for much more than that.

[robert]

this is great and exactly what i am looking for. thanks. when you say "100gpd", is that gallons per day? and when you say "it will produce 4.16 gal of pure per day" are we talking water? and the "concentrate" is what we are trying to reduce to syrup?

the ro unit is an aquafine aqf ro90, model 57178. what membrane and flow restrictor is recommended?

[robert]

we are getting a crazy snow storm today.

[Kev]

Kev-
You need to compare the permeate (i.e water removed) to the evaporation rate, not the concentrate. So the 4.16 gph (not gallons per day) of permeate should be added to his boiler rate of 6.66, and his effective evaporation rate would go to ~10.7 gph. It's over a 50% increase in the water removal rate in his case, the upshot being that the RO can run close to full time, whereas boiling on the evaporator requires near-constant attention. Of coarse, with a single 100 GPD RO unit, he won't get 4.16 gph of permeate when processing cold sap. I was running two 100 gpd membranes and I still only got about 3.5 gph of permeate (see the other "Homemade RO" thread in this section). That's why I'm going to use four 100 gpd membranes next year. I'm hoping for 7 gph permeate. When those membranes die, I'll replace them with 4x150 gpd membranes and hopefully get closer to 11 gph permeate. Its ok for producers of 100 taps or less, but not very feasible for much more than that.

yep, thanks for the correction.:D

[jrgagne99]

GPD is gallons per day, GPH is gallons per hour, etc.

"Pure" is the permeate, i.e. pure water, the stuff you are trying to remove from the sap by whatever means necessary (evaporation, RO, magic spells, etc.) Concentrate is what's left after you've removed some (but not enough) of the water. If you remove even enough more water from concentrate, you get syrup. Quick search on your "RO90" system looks like it has a 75 gpd (permeate) membrane. You'll need a pressure pump (aquatec 8800 series?) and a 1 or 5 micron prefilter. Don't use the carbon filters that come with the houshold unit, they'll foul your sap. Leave those sumps empty. wateranywhere.com is a great place to get replacement parts.

[robert]

does the pump run at a preset pressure? and when will i know about how to clean the system?

[robert]

and what kind of "magic spells" do you know to remove water?

[jrgagne99]

My pump (aquatec 8800) runs at about 100 psi. It has an internal bypass so this is the max P, even if you completely block off the outlet (i think). I saved the permeate and flushed every day. Details are in my thread.

[robert]

thanks alot jr.