Evaporator Stacks

[bsmaple]

I got kind of a wierd question. Me and a Friend have a homemade 2x5 evaporator that we are thinking about putting into an old milkhouse that is no longer used that is not attached to the barn but is about 15 to 20 feet away from it. We are going to fire it with wood and are kind of worried about the sparks that will come out of the stack with a barn that has hay in it near by. Was wondering if anybody has any ideas on how to keep the sparks down at all from coming out of the stack or limit them. Any ideas would be appreciated....... :idea:

[maple flats]

Pray a lot. :D

[maple flats]

There are spark arresters available that amount to a screen over the top. I don't know if they would hold up to the extreme temps form an evap. If you want to try that you might want to increase the stack diam just before the screen so there is no restriction, for ex. go from 8" to 10 or 12" and put screen on top, check often. I do not see but a few very light glow from mine but still would be worried about the barn.

[maple flats]

Another idea, move the milk house about 30-40 more feet away or more for safety sake.

[bsmaple]

If we could move it we would :D We were thinking about putting in a few small screens in the stack and on top. I know of some other guys that have camps near their barns but not that close, and some that are out in the middle of the woods and they dont really have any problems. It's just the worry factor :(

[NH Maplemaker]

bsmaple, a producer friend of mine up the road a ways taps about 4000 tapes. I think they are running a 5x14 evaporator with forced draft blower and RO ! They have placed a stainless steel screen basket on the top of there stack! It is constructed with screen on sides and on top so it won't restrict the draft any more than necessary!! The basket is about 2' tall and the same diameter as stack pipe! Basket may be pricey,but less than the cost of new barn!! Hope this helps you !

Jim L

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

How about some kind of fan atop to blow the sparks in the direction you want them to go. Plus spark arrestors? :mrgreen:

Just a thought..
Charlie

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Bsmaple,

Might find you an Amish to make you a stainless screen bucket like the one describe for very cheap as there are a lot in PA. :D

[bsmaple]

every third person around here is an amishman. thanks for the ideas, they sound good. i'll try to get something made and hope for the best. would it make a difference how hard you fired it for the amount of sparks, i guess it only takes one :?

[maplehound]

If you put forced air on it you will definitly get alot of sparks. A friend of mine has had severeal fires over the years around his sugar house. Ussually catching leaves or RR ties on fire. My dad and I always watch at night to see how many sparks are flying from ours.
Good luck, I sure wouldn't try it that close to a barn full of hay.

[Sugarmaker]

BSmaple,
Sounds like you have a very real danger here. I have seen red hot gasses 6 feet above the top of our stack! We watch for sparks too and this is always a danger.
Check your fire insurance, Have fire extinguishers in the sugar house? Have a good source of water avalible. I know from experience that barn fires are not a event you want to have happen. I helped rescue cattle from a engulfed barn that caught on fire from sparks from a elevator chain. It wasnt pretty.
I think you are too close. Even with spark arrestors. Not trying to scare you out of making syrup but we dont want to read about you in the paper.

[bsmaple]

yeah i think we are getting another building that is farther away. we have both been volunteer fireman for a long time, wouldn't look so good a bunch of fireman burning down the barn making syrup :lol:

[Sugarmaker]

bsmaple,
I felt kind of bad after writing my last note. Seemed a little harsh. But after going through a neighbors barn fire, I have a new respect for fire damage, as you must have as a volunteer fire fighter.
When I was a kid my dad had a sugarhouse about 60 feet from the barn on the north side. We we using fuel oil and the wind was usually from the west. But when we had a north wind we felt uncomfortable boiling and keep a good eye on the barn. We did not get the sparks from oil so the danger was not as great. Probably would not have been anything we could have done if it had caught on fire. The old hay barns are a tinder box. Sound like you have made the right choice in relocating. I hope your season is good!
Regards,
Chris

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Pays even better if you built a sugarhouse never to use asphalt. That is a disaster waiting to happen for anyone considering building a sugarhouse. :?

[Parker]

Last year Glenn Goodrich went over this at his seminar,,he suggests that you get 1/4" construction mesh,,remove the stack from the stack base,,fold the mesh over the stack base and put the stack down over the mesh,,I tried it on my 5x16 forced draft and I did not notice any sparks,,I checked yesterday and it did not burn out last year,,,good luck

[brookledge]

Parker
That sounds like a good idea
I'm lucky I have a metal roof. I know with my force draft that my roof is always covered with bits of ash. I wonder if you would need to check the door under the base stack if you have a screen in there. Might build up with alot of small pieces or does it hold them in place until they burn up?
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keith,

Interesting point and I was wondering the same thing. I would think it would still have to blow out quite a bit of fine dust because if it didn't, your stack would get blocked.

[Sugarmaker]

We do have asphalt shingles on our sugarhouse. I agree that steel would be a better choice.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Chris,

Didn't mean anything negative towards you or anyone else, but just some help for future sugarhouses. :) I have an inferno arch and with the amount of stuff it blows out, I would likely be in trouble. I think I will try the mesh wire next year. :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

I don't have that on my small evaporator and are those becoming a thing of the past ?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[MASSEY JACK]

Does the metal roofing sweat or condense much vapor inside? Or do you just make sure you have steam hoods? I will hopefully be building a new sugarhouse this summer and am looking for the best ideas. I put Ondura corugated roofing on my barn and it works good for that. I do not know if it is a fire risk. Does anybody insulate the inside of a tin roof with something?

Jack

[Father & Son]

My little shack has a metal roof and it rains some. I don't have any hoods yet. You just have to know where to stand. :lol:
Jim

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jack,

Might want to look for some hoods down the road as you can build your own preheater for a small price and it will increase your gph and get hot water all at the same time.

As far as roofing, I am not saying anything bad about your roofing,but I wouldn't recommend Ondura to anyone. I have been an auto adjustor for years and many times I have went to someone's house to look at there vehicle after a hail storm to see it covered with damage and sitting inside a garage that had the Ondura roofing. It didn't even slow it down and sometimes it appears it even caused the hail to go faster. :D :D 8O Just kidding, but one thing I am not kidding about is it won't stand up to hail. After it gets 10 to 15 years it it, it gets brittle and anything that hits it damages it. :?

Go with a high quality steel like wheeling steel galvanized or a good quality baked enamel with aluminum mixed in the steel for rust protection. Might cost a little more $$$ up front, but in the long run it will more than pay for itself besides being more appealing to the eye after a few years! :D

[Parker]

I do have a meatle roof and I do have hoods,,when the evap. is really going the hood over the syrup pan cant keep up and we get fog inside the sugarhouse,,,the fog will condense on the inside of the tin some with some inside rain if the weather conditions are just right but not too too bad, (happend 1 time out of the 9 times I boild last year),when we built the sugarhouse we left the eves open and put screen over them , also have a standerd meatle roofing ridge vent at the peak,,I think there is a flow of air from the eves to the vent that helps remove moisture? Not sure how it works but I am happy with it,,I know where I used to help boil you wanted a raincoat on 9 times out of ten,,,,,,and about the screen in my stack,,I checked it when I cleaned my flues last year and could not see where anything was building up........GOOD LUCK and lets hope for 3 weeks of real cold weather

[markcasper]

I have read alot about people getting rained on b/c of too much steam in the sugarhouse. I also have noticed alot of people that cook with the front hood hanging way up in the air.

I basically learned from others in my area. Most in the vicinty of myself have the hoods snug down on the whole evaporator. I have never had any problems with the hood flush on top of the pan. I do have a shatterproof light bulb monted in both hoods. My point is, if there is a steam problem, why not lower the hood and let the hood and stack do the job intended. Mark

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

In theory that sounds all well and good but it is easier to keep an eye on the syrup pan with the hood up in the air a little. A syrup pan can get away from you really fast, so for me, I like the few inches I have so I can keep a watch on it. If you have a suspended hood, might need just a couple of extra inches of stack to help take care of the steam. :D

It is like everything else, it is what you feel comfortable with. I think Leader makes hoods that fit down tight and most of the Canadian companies make hoods where the syrup pan is visible. Either way, whatever works for whoever is using it is what is best. For someone starting out and never used and evaporator, I wouldn't recommend then putting a tight hood on the syrup pan. :)

[maple flats]

I am just building a hood for the first time in my sugarhouse, the last one I made was on my half pint on my patio in 03. It seems to me that if steam builds up in the sugarhouse that the stack pipe is too small. Is my thinking flawed as I will be building one in the next couple of weeks? For my 2 x 6 leader, 3' flues, 3' syrup I am starting only with a flues hood with my homemade preheater inside and plan a 9" stack, is that too small? For next year if I still have a 2 x 6 I might add a front pan hood to suspend and adjust height as conditions dictate. I hope to have a 2 x 8 or 2.5 x 8 by that time or have an RO or both. Depends on what I find that I can swing financially. This hobby gets to be expensive while trying to expand as quickly as possible, but I'm addicted now!

[Sugarmaker]

Parker, Just curious what is your rear pan and steam pipe size? May be a little restricted?

Maple flats,
To each his own on the hood positions. On the pans or suspended, I think if you have good draft and a large enough steam pipe there wont be much steam from the front pan. (I have my front hood setting on the pan, but it is shorter and narrower than the pan for viewing the boil in all partitions.) For your rear hood the 9 inch steam pipe will be more than enough. ( I have a 10 inch dia steam pipe on my 3x5 flue pan.) I would recommend a damper so you can capture that steam for your preheater.

I like that Idea of the metal mesh at the base of the stack! Is this expanded metal with 1/4 inch spaces?

Parker, What is your damper made from and what improvements does it have in the boiling rate?

Today More Questions than answers,
Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One a 2x3 flue hood, 9 inch stack is more than enough to handle all the steam. 6 or 7 inch would be stanard on most 2x3 hoods. One thing on a flue pan hood if it is down tight and you are using a preheater, you really need a damper in the stack and so most of the steam is turning back into condensation anyways. If the hood is suspended, 9 inch would be about right to pull the steam. :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Parker]

I dont have a damper in my evaporator,,kevin does,,,my rear pan is 5 feet by ten feet,, it has a tight fitting hood with a parrell flow preheater,,I dont run a damper in the preheater steam stack (16") yet,,seems to be fast enough without it (250-300 gallons per hour?),,,,,,The steam stack over my 5'X6' syrup pan is 20",,probably too short at 12',last year at the end of the season we put a window fan on top of the stack to suck the steam up,,worked great,,,,,,I run I would guess 2' between the bottom of the hood and the top of the pan,,I cant belive you could run that evap. with a hood tight aginst the pan,,you really need to keep an eye on where you are making syrup when you start it up,(usually in the middle of the pan),,once you start to draw off you have to keep a close eye on the sap level also,,,probably someone who has done it forever could run tight syrup pan hoods ,,,,but...I kinda doubt it mabey if it was oil fired?

[markcasper]

Parker, I have ran every evaporator that I have ever owned with the hoods tight to the pan. I have a 4x12 King with a 4x4 front pan. I have got 4 pretty large sliding doors on each hood, 2 on each side. Often, I can have both of them open on the side I'm taking syrup from and even with them both open, the steam gets drafted right out the pipe. With the shatterproof light mounted inside the hood, I'd never have it any other way.

The stacks are 12 or 14 inch, can't remember. Now maybe the larger diameter stack is the trick???? Two of my neighbors tap about the same as I, 1 has a 4x12, the other a 4x14 and they have always ran with the hoods flush with the pan.

I do know another guy with a 6x20, 20 miles south of me that has his hood suspended, but he has plastic sheeting coming down from the hood and has everything closed off except where hes drawing syrup. Maybe that would be an idea. I've heard of others doing this.

[DougM]

Well, somewhere around here I have a post about catching our sugarhouse on fire, and it's a metal pole barn. Framing too close to the stack, and maybe a little overzealous on the firing. :) So, you can never be too careful.

[Parker]

I think I would be too nervous to boil with a hood covering my syrup pan,,,like driving with my eyes closed,,mabey in time I have it figured out enough so it would not be a problem

[Revi]

I don' think we'll cover our syrup pan. We like the smell so much! That's what draws the people to the sugarhouse!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Revi,

Nice looking sugarhouse and setup! :D

[christwo]

Being that there is no sap yet, gives me time to work in the shack getting ready.

I am replacing my base stack and am going to be putting a piece of 1/4" construction mesh in the bottom of it. The company that I bought if from also called it Hardware cloth, so they must be one in the same.

Could I / should I also wrap a piece this around the top of the stack in the stack cover to doulble protect the spark reduction?

Would this have any effect on the draft?

Having an asphalt roof concerns me when I go out at night and watch the sparks fly, but there is no money in the budget for a metal roof.

Always have a hose around, (unless it freezes).

[cheesegenie]

Chris, I just bought a new 18X48 DomGrimm pan. It has three sections
and two 3/4in. drains in oposite corners.I have it set up along side a
smaller pan and hope it kind of preheats it. I am wondering, the sides
are only 8 inches high, is yours the same? Does it splash over?I have
a pic ,if I can figure out how to add it when my kid's not here to show
me.

[christwo]

Mine is 8" high. I never get the sap that high that it boils over. I keep it around 2". It foams up and over once but that was when I had it around 5". Never again.

There should be photos attached if all went well.
click the link below.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/fargo912/my_photos

[cheesegenie]

Yes the pictures came through fine.That is the same pan as mine.
You sure have a beautiful area there. Glad I didn't send my pics.
What state is MA? Is that a Canadian flag flying, impressed.

[christwo]

Thanks,

Yeah I am in MASS in the USA , but with some FrenchCanadian heritage I was thinking maybe flying the maple leaf would help bring out the sap !!!!.

[mapleman3]

won't be too long chris, we'll be up to our ears in sap.. hang on the ride is coming!!!