Recycling of the check valve adapters

[brookledge]

I talked to a plastic recycler (who turns plastic back into pellets to be used again) the other day to get his thought on the value of a used cv. He looked at one and said because the ball inside is not the same material it would reduce the value and it certainly would not be worth the labor to take the ball out. Anyways he told me he would get back to me and let me know if it is anything they want to get into.
My thoughts were if they would be worth anything it would be better to recycle them instead of producer just dropping them on the ground. For someonr that has put out 10,000, 20,000 or what ever it is going to be a big pile of plastic.
Maybe dealers would be willing to be a collecting point to put them in a gaylord crate.
Nobody is going to get rich doing this but it could provide an avenue to keep them out of the woods. I'd like to know how many leader sold this year other than it is in the millions. And that is alot of plastic.
I will keep everyone posted
Keith

[Kev]

Is it a metal check ball?

[DrTimPerkins]

I talked to a plastic recycler (who turns plastic back into pellets to be used again) the other day to get his thought on the value of a used cv. He looked at one and said because the ball inside is not the same material it would reduce the value and it certainly would not be worth the labor to take the ball out.

We did put some thought into the recycling of these during the design, however it takes a little bit more processing to do so. They should be run through a shredder (not the kind for paper) and then through a water tank. The material the spout is made of will sink. The material the ball is made of floats. Pretty simple mechanical seperation.

[PerryW]

I'm too much of a Yankee to even considering throwing my taps away each year. Many of my spouts were used when I first installed them 22 years ago. I I know the number probably show that I'm a dinosaur, but I have more maple trees than I need anyway.

[adk1]

I will just put mine out with out 2x a month recycling truck pickup

[brookledge]

The recycler that I approached wants more of then to do more testing. So I will get them to him next week. They are a major recycler of all types of plastic and turn it back into little pellets for extruders.
Keith

[farmall h]

Why not give them a "quick-dip" in boiling water rather than throw them out?:confused:

[brookledge]

Because that will not sanitise them. It has been said many times if you want to use them over and over again go ahead. But for me i'll pay the extra money to replace them each year. That cost will more than be made up when you make additional syrup. this year I made just shy of .6 gallons of syrup per tap. And I do not have high vacuum just 18". So when I get high vac it should even get more per tap
Keith

[markct]

I will just put mine out with out 2x a month recycling truck pickup

and then most likely they will be pushed aside and discarded when they reach the plant. its amazing how some people think they can put anything recyclable in the curbside bin and its ok, i have even found bricks and cement, scrap metal like brake rotors, tree pieces like firewood, yea they are all recyclable but not in the usual curbside program!

[spud]

I'm too much of a Yankee to even considering throwing my taps away each year. Many of my spouts were used when I first installed them 22 years ago. I I know the number probably show that I'm a dinosaur, but I have more maple trees than I need anyway.

PerryW,

It sounds like you are sugaring just for the enjoyment and not the profit. I think thats great and it takes a lot of stress away. I'm wondering how much syrup you made this year on your 650 taps? Now times that by 2 or 3 and that is what you would make spending $400.00 on CVs. For me it would be more fun just seeing how much i could make on my 650 taps (that's just me).

Spud

[PerryW]

PerryW,

It sounds like you are sugaring just for the enjoyment and not the profit. I think thats great and it takes a lot of stress away. I'm wondering how much syrup you made this year on your 650 taps? Now times that by 2 or 3 and that is what you would make spending $400.00 on CVs. For me it would be more fun just seeing how much i could make on my 650 taps (that's just me).

Spud

I think you need vacuum to gain any benefit from the checkvalves.

Also, in my case; if I need more sap, I have plenty more maples available.

My sugarbush is real spread out on the side of a steep hill. Much of the mainlines and tubing is 22 years old (some older) with long laterals with as many as 30 taps per lateral. From my understanding; I would have to completely repipe my sugarbush with a lot more mainline; and due to it's "spread-out" and steep nature, the cost (and effort) would be significantly more than average. I would also have to install a permanent service and pay NH Elec. Coop a monthly charge to s put service for the pump (or use a generator).

If I did spend the money on new tubing & vacuum, I would most likely need to also buy an RO machine or cut 8 additional cords of sugarwood. I'd also have to upgrade from flat filters to a press. Make two sap trips per day (instead of one). Then I would stress out even more due to the additional investment when the weather didn't cooperate.

RIght now, I can work a fairly easy sugaring schedule (5 hour max boils); make $5,000 - $6000 Gross with very few expenses and work only 8 weeks (including putting up 8 cords of wood).

I'd hate to screw up a good thing.


tallys year-end total
2011 - 99 (so far)
2010 --- 110
2009 - 119
2008 --- 95
2007 --- 113
2006 -- 130
2005 --- 89
2004 --- 116
2003 -- 126
2002 - -- 122
2001 --- 99
2000 -- 155
1999 --- 81
1998 --- 72
1997 -- 100
1996 --- 201
1995 --- 121
1994 --- 113
1993 --- 90
1992 - -- 136
1991 --- 101
1990 --- 105

[802maple]

So what you are saying is if on our lower bush that we used old spouts that is still running and will nearly make a 1/2 gallon per tap we would have made 1 and half gallons, I guess we better consider it. If we had been able to have vacuum on that one for the first 5 days we would have easily surpassed the 1/2 gallon mark. Now in our upper cold bush with all new spouts, we will struggle to make .25 gallons per tap as we are now just under .20, so you can't always rely on the new spout theory if the weather doesn't cooperate,
PerryW,

It sounds like you are sugaring just for the enjoyment and not the profit. I think thats great and it takes a lot of stress away. I'm wondering how much syrup you made this year on your 650 taps? Now times that by 2 or 3 and that is what you would make spending $400.00 on CVs. For me it would be more fun just seeing how much i could make on my 650 taps (that's just me).

Spud

[WMF]

From what I have seen this was not a good year to evaluate the effectivness of the cv's in this area.
If you drilled a hole in a maple tree the sap ran strong until budding and you easily made a quart a tap. With good vacuum over a half gallon no matter what spile was used.

[DrTimPerkins]

From what I have seen this was not a good year to evaluate the effectivness of the cv's in this area.

At least here, this has been a great year for production. However, it has been an even better year for production on CV spout adapters. We're still not done yet (more than a foot of snow on the ground, made dark amber yesterday), but probably will be by the end of the week.

I'll go into it in more detail on Friday and Saturday at the Leader Evaporator Open House, however sap production just within the past 7 days (not seasonal total), on our production bush (27" Hg), the results are:

3 yr old drops, 3 yr old standard spouts = 2.5 gal sap/tap (0.4 gal/day)
new drops, new stubby, new CV spouts = 8.4 gal sap/tap (1.2 gal/day)
2 yr old drops, 2 yr old stubbys, new CV spouts=7.7 gal/tap (1.1 gal/day)
8 yr old drops, new stubby, new CV adapters, 7.4 gal/tap (1.1 gal/day)

Over the entire season (so far), the additional net income (after cost of materials) compared to the 3 yr old system (if sap is priced at $0.50/gal) is:

new drop, new stubby, new CV = $3.01/tap (minus labor to install new drop)
2 yr old drop, 2 yr old stubby, new CV = $3.24/tap
8 yr old drop, new stubby, new CV = $2.37 (minus labor to install new stubby)

So on a 2,500 tap sugarbush, the average net additional income (minus labor) SO FAR from using CV spouts ranges from about $5,900-8,000. Obviously this depends upon what you're comparing it to, however the results are pretty clear again this year, and quite consistent with the results we've gotten over the past several years. If we didn't have CV adapters in 3/4 of our woods, we'd have stopped collecting enough sap to make syrup about a week ago. As it is, we'll still be boiling through at least Tues-Wednesday. Haven't made a drop of B or Commercial yet. So overall, we've extended our season by 7-11 days using the CV adapters.

Two other studies we have going show essentially the same results. More on that on Friday and Saturday.

[PerryW]

Dr. Tim,

What date did you tap these trees? My trees are just across the river from Waterford Vt at 1000' elevation. I've only been tapped 5 weeks, so my 20 year old taps and tubing haven't showed any signs of slowing down yet, though I suspect they will start drying up quick now.

[DrTimPerkins]

What date did you tap these trees?

Too many details to go over here, but we actually have several different experiments looking at CV adapters.

In one experiment, some trees were tapped with CV and some with normal adapters in late-January. Another set was tapped with or without CV in early-March.

In two other experiments, CV and normal adapters were tapped in during mid-February.

Why tap early you might ask? Last year sap started to run on Feb 26 before we were finished tapping. This year for several experiments and in the production bush we just decided to tap in mid-February to avoid the craziness of the start of the season. Secondly, the larger producers start tapping in January. Third...sap yield will often start slowing down a few % each day by about the 3rd week after tapping and taper off slowly. So although you may think it's running fine, it actually isn't running as hard as it could. If you have 20 yr old taps (and tubing), I can assure you that you are losing production. Just replacing your spouts each year will get you another 10-15%.

[PerryW]

I can assure you that you are losing production. Just replacing your spouts each year will get you another 10-15%.

I still don't think I can make the number work for my gravity system:

650 spouts at $0.35 per spout is $227 annual cost + labor of replacing spouts.

i gathered about 4500 gallons of sap this year. And additional 10%-15% of sap would be 450 - 675 gallons of sap. At $0.35 per gallon, that's $157-$236 dollars worth of sap gained by replacing my spouts each year.

I guess the increased per tap yield would be more important to me except I have plenty more trees I could tap and plenty of used spouts, tubing and buckets.

[DrTimPerkins]

I still don't think I can make the number work for my gravity system:

650 spouts at $0.35 per spout is $227 annual cost + labor of replacing spouts.


Gravity....that changes things somewhat. The 10-15% increase is for ANY new adapter, not just CV adapters. The CV effect is in addition to the new adapter effect.

650 spouts x $0.14 per spout (non-CV adapter) = $91 (plus labor)

Additional income $157-$236 = net profit of $66-145, or $0.10-0.22/tap (plus labor...but replacing a spout isn't terribly time consuming). You still come out ahead.

On CV, you'll get more than 10-15% on gravity, and far more than that on vacuum.

[PerryW]

Dr. Tim,

I was wondering if you guys are staying tapped until this weekend? It looks like there could be some more sugaring weather. It will be interesting to see how the check-valve spouts perform after this warm spell.