Can this stainless tub be used?

[John c]

I have a neighbor that has a nice, big stainless wash tub that he said I could have,, BUT he used it to store old motor oil in!
Can this tub be cleaned and used for sap?

[KV Sappers]

I would'nt even try. I'd tell him thanks but I have to pass on his generous offer.

[John c]

I would'nt even try. I'd tell him thanks but I have to pass on his generous offer.

Yeah I'm leaning that way, but it just seems like being stainless steel and nonpouris it would be fine. Especially if DAWN dish soap was used. I don't know, I thought that was one of the huge benefits of stainless steel. It would be a shame to pass on the tub because I really could use it!

[fishman]

turn it inside out:)

[John c]

turn it inside out:)

Trust me, that keeps going through my head! Lol!

[BryanEx]

Using soap would be the second no-no in the process. Clean it up and use it as a potato planter. :D

[Wardner in Tewksbury]

Unless a chemical/metallurgical engineer or somebody with at least 40 years using or selling food service equipment offers advice, nobody here knows nuttin about this problem. That should be obvious with the replies received so far.

Start with some research in a forum where the knowledge base isn't so parochial. l would search several Wikipedia search words, read the articles, and move on to the references and links at the bottom of each.

Some combination of heat, solvent cleaning, or abrasion should do the trick.

Sounds like most of these guys have seen their last maple season. I expect they will all be moving to the Southern Hemisphere to get away from the Japanese Nuclear Hemisphere that we will all soon inhabit. Sayanora.

[markct]

heres my though on cleaning metal items previously used for other stuff, nearly every machined, formed, or otherwise processed item has oil on it when its manufactured. even the sheet stainless has an oil film applied as it is rolled smooth, so with proper diligance and cleaning i do believe the item can be cleaned provided it doesnt have hidden areas, ie seams or crevices you cant get into well, and hot water or steam definatly will help. now this of course only applies to items like stainless, plastics can and will absorb the materials that were in contact with them

[John c]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think it's time to search and search again on this topic. I am of the mind that it can be cleaned and used in the production of maple syrup! Until I get an educated, logical explanation of why it cant, I am going to get this tub and the very first thing I'm gonna do is fill it with water and DAWN dish soap!

[CBOYER]

Stainless can be completely cleaned.
We used to clean valves, piping and tanks to be used in Hydrogen peroxyde plant (50%, very reactive).
First clean whit a petrol solvent to remove old oil, hot steam it, dry it and clean it whit acetone. Rince after. if you have rough welds surface could need some brushing.

[mntapper]

after u clean it u could put a piece of plastic sheeting in it for a liner.

[BryanEx]

Remind me not to buy syrup at roadside stands. Garbage cans to oil cans... never know what my food products have been in before I get them. :?:

[PerryW]

hey they reuse metal braces for teeth!

[Timber Juice]

Sounds like CBoyer has the right idea.

Use something that will dissolve the oil residue the easiest, then something that will clean the first cleaner, then something that will clean that cleaner untill all you need is hot water.

Once upon-a-time after doing some home car repairs the degreaser hadn't really done its job but headed into the kitchen for a snack.
Beside the bottle of Dawn was a pile of fried chicken skins that someone hadn't wanted to eat for lunch. A dim bulb went off and I smeared my hands, fingers and nails with chicken fat. It turned dark with the oil it pulled from my pores. Then Dawn cut the chicken fat.
My hands were clean!

I wouldn't pass-up anything stainless.

Clean it completely, then boil it out 6 or 7 times, rinse and then do a really hard boil. Do the dairy clean, clean, boil, rinse - then maybe a test with sap at the end of the season with buddy sap and let it ferment. Once its cleaned from that there should be no problem.

Goodluck

[Wardner in Tewksbury]

Remind me not to buy syrup at roadside stands. Garbage cans to oil cans... never know what my food products have been in before I get them. :?:

Don't forget diaper filters, LOL

So you think that Federal (USA or Canada) meat inspectors do good work? Most of the time they are reading porn in the workplace bathroom. They certainly aren't "standing on the corner watching all the girls go by".

[maple flats]

Stainless can be completely cleaned.
We used to clean valves, piping and tanks to be used in Hydrogen peroxyde plant (50%, very reactive).
First clean whit a petrol solvent to remove old oil, hot steam it, dry it and clean it whit acetone. Rince after. if you have rough welds surface could need some brushing.

Cleaning hydrogen peroxide is no problem. I and many others use it to clean our tubing systems. My question would be about the construction. Are the seams smooth? Do they have places that can harbor the oil? If the seams are welded it is more likely but not a guarantee that it is smooth enough to get totally clean than if it is soldered seams. The first question might be what was it originally designed for, if a food item it is most likely able to be totally cleaned, if it was designed to hold oil it might well not be constructed for total cleanability. Good luck.
Dave

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

once you clean it fill it with water agitate it take a water sample and send to state or private company for chemical testing. Tell them you are checking a water sample for personal reasons.

[3rdgen.maple]

Heres my 2 cents. When you have to ask "is it safe to use" in any question you already know the answer. People always seek advice in hopes that there is one person that agrees with them and that is all it takes for some to make peace with the answer they are looking for wether it is right or wrong. Im not saying the tub will be fine or not. My advice for you or anyone with this question is to call your local health inspector or FDA and pose the question to them. I bet I know the answer already. This is food production
and lets not forget that.

[Kev]

and stainless is used in food service why? because it is nearly impervious to penetration of contaminates. therefor can be sanitized of contaminates that it will and does come in contact with.
if you think stainless for food is sanitary before it is cleaned for use the first time...
well lets just say I got bridge for sale

[happy thoughts]

Heres my 2 cents. When you have to ask "is it safe to use" in any question you already know the answer. People always seek advice in hopes that there is one person that agrees with them and that is all it takes for some to make peace with the answer they are looking for wether it is right or wrong. Im not saying the tub will be fine or not. My advice for you or anyone with this question is to call your local health inspector or FDA and pose the question to them. I bet I know the answer already. This is food production
and lets not forget that.


I have to agree and couldn't have said it better. Although on first thought some might say that a stainless tub is cleanable no matter what it contained previously, it seems the FDA would frown on such re-use.

From the FDA Food Code 2009: Chapter 7 - Poisonous or Toxic Materials .......

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm188102.htm

Container Prohibitions
7-203.11 Poisonous or Toxic Material Containers.
A container previously used to store poisonous or toxic materials may not be used to store, transport, or dispense food.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm189215.htm

Use of poisonous or toxic material containers to store, transport, or dispense food is prohibited because of the potential for contamination of the food. The risk of serious medical consequences to anyone consuming food stored in these containers coupled with the lack of confidence that all of the material could or would be removed in the wash and sanitizing procedures are reasons for prohibiting this practice.

[KenWP]

Don't forget diaper filters, LOL

So you think that Federal (USA or Canada) meat inspectors do good work? Most of the time they are reading porn in the workplace bathroom. They certainly aren't "standing on the corner watching all the girls go by".

Okay I worked as a meat inspector back in Alberta and at no time did I read porn in the bathroom.I have yet to even hear of a meat inspector not doing his job correctly.

[Wardner in Tewksbury]

Okay I worked as a meat inspector back in Alberta


OK, I'll remove Canada.

I worked as a maintenance mechanic for a fish processor that packaged for Gorton's, Mrs. Paul's, and countless private labels. Most of the time the inspectors were in their office reading something; rarely were they on the processing floor. Some of the time I didn't know where they were but certainly not in cold storage. I never saw them take a sample of anything except for the breaded and deep fried fish sticks which were their lunch and snacks.

[John c]

FDA? What a joke, I could care less what they say! Aren't they the ones that allow all those silly medicine commercials on TV, the drugs that promote suicidal thoughts and tendencys as a side effects? Oh yeah " along with many other things! I really don't think they are out to better our lives, I think they want to line their pockets at our expense. that's right yours and mine!
I think I trust the FDA's motives as much as I trust a child molester's motives as he walks through a park!

[3rdgen.maple]

FDA? What a joke, I could care less what they say! Aren't they the ones that allow all those silly medicine commercials on TV, the drugs that promote suicidal thoughts and tendencys as a side effects? Oh yeah " along with many other things! I really don't think they are out to better our lives, I think they want to line their pockets at our expense. that's right yours and mine!
I think I trust the FDA's motives as much as I trust a child molester's motives as he walks through a park!

You shouldnt hold back lol. But reality is like it or not they are the ones that regulate the food industry and luckily we maple producers manage our own industry, but when shady practices start surfacing in our industry how long do you think it will take for them to sit up and take notice and tell us what we can and cant do. So if any maple producer wants them to stay out of our lives I cannot stress enough this is a food we are making so lets be safe and not use substandard or previous chemical storage containers or any other non food substance for our industry. Any one of you can complain about what I just wrote but it is the reality and if we all keep up with the ill practices the complaining will only just begin. This same topic keeps coming up over and over. Bottom line is setting up a safe maple production facility isnt cheap. Yes there are ways to save a buck or 2 but certain things are not good for our names and we all represent each other so when one customers comes across a producer with sub-par practices we all suffer. And before any of you say it no Im not perfect and neither is my operation, but there is no garbage cans to store sap or any other such things that are not or where not produced for our industry or the food industry.............. It gets real old preaching this to these very same threads.

[Southtowns27]

http://twilight.mahoro-net.org/~fck/thread_direction.gif

Beats me how a question about a stainless tank leads to a discussion about how big a joke the FDA is and how the inspectors read porn all day...

Well stated 3rdgen.. My sap gets stored in a 1000 gal SS insulated milk tank. It wasn't cheap, but it was designed to, and only held a food product.

[happy thoughts]

FDA? What a joke, I could care less what they say! ..... I think they want to line their pockets at our expense. that's right yours and mine!.....
walks through a park!


With all due respect, John, your own motives are better how? Aren't you trying to save a buck with the potential to put others at risk?

As someone else already said, this is about making a food product, and one that is pretty unique to our part of the world. Either you take pride in the product you make and follow safe production practices or everyone else in the industry will eventually suffer.

Remember, most laws are knee jerk reactions to someone, someplace doing something stupid so that others are harmed.

[John c]

With all due respect, John, your own motives are better how? Aren't you trying to save a buck with the potential to put others at risk?

As someone else already said, this is about making a food product, and one that is pretty unique to our part of the world. Either you take pride in the product you make and follow safe production practices or everyone else in the industry will eventually suffer.

Remember, most laws are knee jerk reactions to someone, someplace doing something stupid so that others are harmed.

Infact I'm not trying to save money at all. Since seeing this tub I realized just how much it would help my operation, so I already have one being made as I type this out because I don't have time to clean the freebie properly since I am backed up with more sap than I bargained for. It's not a money issue at all, it's an issue of weather stainless steel is truely impervious or not. So with that said I refuse to put anybody at risk and that's the point of this thread!

[Maplewalnut]

FDA? What a joke, I could care less what they say! Aren't they the ones that allow all those silly medicine commercials on TV, the drugs that promote suicidal thoughts and tendencys as a side effects? Oh yeah " along with many other things! I really don't think they are out to better our lives, I think they want to line their pockets at our expense. that's right yours and mine!
I think I trust the FDA's motives as much as I trust a child molester's motives as he walks through a park!

Wow pretty strong statements.... but I can tell you if you disclosed your bulk tank previously held motor oil to an FDA inspector or a dept of ag inspector for that matter the joke my friend would be on you.

[3rdgen.maple]

Infact I'm not trying to save money at all. Since seeing this tub I realized just how much it would help my operation, so I already have one being made as I type this out because I don't have time to clean the freebie properly since I am backed up with more sap than I bargained for. It's not a money issue at all, it's an issue of weather stainless steel is truely impervious or not. So with that said I refuse to put anybody at risk and that's the point of this thread!

Very gald to hear you chose to have a new one made. It just scares the heck out of me when I read these threads and its an open invitation for government regulations to take us over if they found any substandard equipment in our operations. Now just dont come back and tell us you had the fabricator cut up the old tub and turn it inside out. LOL

[John c]

Very gald to hear you chose to have a new one made. It just scares the heck out of me when I read these threads and its an open invitation for government regulations to take us over if they found any substandard equipment in our operations. Now just dont come back and tell us you had the fabricator cut up the old tub and turn it inside out. LOL

Lol! Not the case. Now, how would all you folks suggest I clean the oil film off the new stainless?

[SapZilla]

Yep, Glad you bought a new one. Yes, over and over a member will pose a question about re-assigning an object that is capable of holding sap or boiling it. If I were a consumer looking in I would think that all of us arguing about it and comparing each other to child molesters are just a bunch of childish punks. But, people are never going to stop thinking of ways to save money, so it will continue to appear that we are just taking wing-shots at this syrup process, as if it is just some kind of joke. We may as well just continue to sell our syrup for $8.00 per qt, it's not like it takes any money to develop equipment...if we are creative enough...:rolleyes:

[Jim Schumacher]

Lol! Not the case. Now, how would all you folks suggest I clean the oil film off the new stainless?

I don't know who came up with the idea that SS is shipped with oil on it. Any 300 series SS is considered to be food grade. The last two processes that 304 SS goes through at the plant is pickling, then annealing. Pickling will not allow any oil to exist, annealing is done with very extreme, even heat.

[Kev]

You shouldnt hold back lol. But reality is like it or not they are the ones that regulate the food industry and luckily we maple producers manage our own industry, but when shady practices start surfacing in our industry how long do you think it will take for them to sit up and take notice and tell us what we can and cant do. So if any maple producer wants them to stay out of our lives I cannot stress enough this is a food we are making so lets be safe and not use substandard or previous chemical storage containers or any other non food substance for our industry. Any one of you can complain about what I just wrote but it is the reality and if we all keep up with the ill practices the complaining will only just begin. This same topic keeps coming up over and over. Bottom line is setting up a safe maple production facility isnt cheap. Yes there are ways to save a buck or 2 but certain things are not good for our names and we all represent each other so when one customers comes across a producer with sub-par practices we all suffer. And before any of you say it no Im not perfect and neither is my operation, but there is no garbage cans to store sap or any other such things that are not or where not produced for our industry or the food industry.............. It gets real old preaching this to these very same threads.

I for one would never use a tank or bucket that had poison in it
Yet I do find much irony in :
you can not use a stainless vessel that had a petro product in it. Although that same petro product was used in the production of said stainless product.
yet you can use a plastic container that is made out of that petro product. That then leachs 2 carcinigens and at least one other toxin along with synthetic estrogen into pure water (or anything else put in it) but at levels deemed safe by those that produce the product. that is then concentrated at about 40 to 1 or even greater in many cases.

it was deemed necisisary to add the verbage that happy posted due to the use of plastics as food containers. and rightly so due to the permiable nature of plastic.
I hope this explains my position better than previous posts on similar subjects:D

[John c]

Yep, Glad you bought a new one. Yes, over and over a member will pose a question about re-assigning an object that is capable of holding sap or boiling it. If I were a consumer looking in I would think that all of us arguing about it and comparing each other to child molesters are just a bunch of childish punks. But, people are never going to stop thinking of ways to save money, so it will continue to appear that we are just taking wing-shots at this syrup process, as if it is just some kind of joke. We may as well just continue to sell our syrup for $8.00 per qt, it's not like it takes any money to develop equipment...if we are creative enough...:rolleyes:

I was comparing motives not people. It's people who posses motives weather they are good or bad. Unfortunately I was referring to the bad! Trust me, I am by all means open to what is right, infact I did do what I felt was right by going to the men and wemen that i respect and admire for their knowledge and hard work and posting the original thread in the first place (and by purchasing a new stainless tub after reading and considering all feedback.) Unless you work for the FDA or are a child molester then I meant no offense. If you are either of the two then please do take offense because I don't trust eithers motives!

[John c]

Ok guys, I got the new tub and I love it. Thanks for all the feedback! so now back to the old yucky tub. I'm thinking about upgrading my operation for next year to a wood fired arch or evaporator. I'm looking for feedback on weather I should cut up the yucky tub and make a liner for a block arch or would it be better to just frame out an evaporator with angle iron and use the stainless for the walls? Im still gonna stay at a micro level operation, but I need to increase my boil off rate.
Thanks,

John c.

[markct]

I don't know who came up with the idea that SS is shipped with oil on it. Any 300 series SS is considered to be food grade. The last two processes that 304 SS goes through at the plant is pickling, then annealing. Pickling will not allow any oil to exist, annealing is done with very extreme, even heat.

any stainless that is formed, like spun or stamped, is almost always done with lubrication, and when its machined ie fittings etc then its also got oil on it, but since its not porus and thus food grade it can be sanitized provided there are no rough spots or nooks etc

[3rdgen.maple]

any stainless that is formed, like spun or stamped, is almost always done with lubrication, and when its machined ie fittings etc then its also got oil on it, but since its not porus and thus food grade it can be sanitized provided there are no rough spots or nooks etc

Notice he said shipped with oil on it. After pickling and annealing it is gone.

[gmman]

I have a farmer, neighbor that offered to me a bulk tank that was used for milk. But, he later used it to store Roundup. Is there anyway to clean the tank. I am leaning towards letting it go but it is free and sucks to let a $1000 tank go to waste. Why is it OK to use acid wash on our pans and rinse good to clean them but this chemical is wrong if done correctly. Another thing, how do you know what a farmer put in a bulktank, you really never know unless you actually see the milk. Just somethings I've been thinking about. let me know your thoughts.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Left to the environment Round up has a short life as far as toxicity. I would clean it and leave it out in the sunlight and scrub it clean again. You can always get it tested.

[gmman]

What should I clean it with and who could test it for me? Would I fill it with water and test the water after it sits in the tank? I also have a steam cleaner, would that help clean it. Thanks for the input.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Are you guys serious? What is wrong with you to even consider this? Walk away would be my advice.....

Just picture this. I clean out the jug my round up comes in, I put syrup in it and have you over for breakfast. How much syrup would you put on your pancakes.......? None for me thanks. Take the tank for free and take to the junk yard and get scrap price.

[markct]

Are you guys serious? What is wrong with you to even consider this? Walk away would be my advice.....

Just picture this. I clean out the jug my round up comes in, I put syrup in it and have you over for breakfast. How much syrup would you put on your pancakes.......? None for me thanks. Take the tank for free and take to the junk yard and get scrap price.

big difference is that plastic jug is porous and the stainless bulk tank is not. and as someone else said the toxicity deteriorates rapidly, and alot of corn is grown with roundup and is still considered safe to eat

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

some one else said" The solution to pollution is Dilution" and being State of VT "Decon Certified" thats pretty much all you do is srubb a person down with brush and detergent.

[DrTimPerkins]

Equipment not specifically made for food sometimes is crimped rather than fully welded on all seams. Actually, some barrels are made that way as well, however as long as they are used for food (syrup) only, it is acceptable. Modern food-manufacturing standards do not allow any uncleanable spaces. If a storage container NOT made for food has such voids (crimps or other hidden nooks and crannies), it cannot be considered fully cleanable.

Also, if a food-grade container is used to store a hazardous chemical (unless it is specially a cleaning agent, like acid), it generally isn't going to be considered food-grade again.

There was an instance years ago of a company out of California trying to sell fully-welded barrels to the maple industry. We bought one to investigate. Turns out they had been used for ultrapure industrial solvents (computer chip-making chemicals). Still reeked of it even after several cleanings (and these were high-quality, fully-welded seam barrels). They got shut down really quickly by a single phone call from VT officials to CA officials. Didn't take a lot of discussion.

As far as Round-Up goes, although it is relatively less toxic than other weed killers, read the safety label and then decide whether you want to store food in a container that once contained it. I would hope the answer would be NO.

Finally, whoever wrote that this kind of discussion is exactly what you don't want if you dislike Government interference is EXACTLY right. If the maple industry can't demonstrate that they can keep their own act clean, then the Government will do it for us. I can guarantee that you'd prefer the former to the latter.

[Haynes Forest Products]

OK all that sound good. So now I have a SS sink and I clean my hands in it using hand cleaner.......... Then the kids shoe has some dog crap on then and in the sink they go. The sink gets clogged from all the dog crap and I use Drano to get it unstuck. Little Billy ( name has been changed to protect me) comes in with a bloody lip and we clean it out over the sink. My wife cooks some of her specialty meat loaf and we all come down with dysentery and well you can see how this goes.............................................. ............................................SO Thad what do you do? stop eating food prepped in the kitchen? replace the sink? or do take out till you sell the house.....but you replace the sink before you sell? I don't recall anyone saying a **** thing about making a evap out of the sides of a over turned oil tanker from a scrap yard.

[wiam]

I do not generally eat out of the sink drain. I am more carefull about a product for sale than one I eat myself.

William

[Thad Blaisdell]

I don't recall anyone saying a **** thing about making a evap out of the sides of a over turned oil tanker from a scrap yard.

An evaporator is one thing the pans would be a completely different thing. I dont think it matters what and where the fire is as long as it is not touching the food product.

As far as the bulk tank goes you are talking about an herbicide.... the ending of the word...."cide"..... death...... hazardous material.... When I am spraying the weeds and get thirsty I sure dont take a shot and keep going. I am also willing to bet if word got around that you had a tank you were using for sugaring had herbicides in it you would have a hard time selling your product.... ever. I know the packers would ban your syrup. Your name would be mud.

[3rdgen.maple]

Good god does the insanity ever end with this crap? Heres one for you guys that might tick off half of the members on here. If you cant afford to get the proper equipment that your sap or syrup touches then dont get invovled in making syrup..... And dont bring up the tinkering and homemade equipment debate because it does have its time and place but not when the safety, health and common sense comes into play. Man I hope the government isnt a trader member. WTF How many times do we need to answer the question is it okay to boil my sap in a pan made from a an old used tank that held toxic chemicals and while Im asking what about garbage cans for sap storage and diapers for filters I also been saving the laundry detergent bottles to hang on the trees to save money, do you think its okay to use my 5 gallon empty pails that held hydraulic oil or drywall compound, what about bulk packing my syrup in an old gas tank off my 79 ford bronco its good and solid. Heres a thought if you got to ask such questions you already know its not made for the food industry so before the next guy ask a question like this the answer is NO.

[maplwrks]

3rd gen is right---we are our own worst enemy. If you need to ask if a container is safe to put food in, then don't use it, find the capital to purchase approved equipment. There will come time when there will be inspections, (hopefully not by the FDA) and there will be a lot of crying about the harshness of the infractions. Do things right and you won't have any problems.

[Butch]

Hey guys - being a first year syrup maker certain things came to my mind during the season:

Use clean (well scrubbed, food only) sap buckets and spiles
Store sap in clean storage containers only used for food
After boiling, we sterilized our syrup bottles and caps just before bottling at 200*, then lay the bottles on their side to further sterilize the neck and cap
Every precaution we could reasonably think of was taken, keeping in mind that we would be eating some of this wonderful stuff ourselves, as well as family, friends and total strangers...anything else that can be (positively) added?

[KenWP]

This thread is like a soap opera I can leave for a year and still follow the story line with out reading back.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

lets say I found this old milk jug a 40lb'er to be exact and the farmer used it to catch his anti freeze in. Now if I wash it out really good can I use it to catch syrup in from my draw off? Now also to be known it is approved by the FDA for consumption here is a quote:o
"propylene glycol was classified by the U. S. Food and Drug Administration as "generally recognized as safe" (GRAS) for use as a direct food additive.":o:o

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/propylene-glycol#ixzz1OYAfS4wL.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

This thread is like a soap opera I can leave for a year and still follow the story line with out reading back.

hey Ken I found one of those Deleval milk cans do you want to buy it?:D

[gmman]

1st of all 3rd gen. maple, your like the 3rd gen. cranberry growers in Wis., everything handed to them on a silver spoon, probably don't know what it is like to start from scratch. That said I bet you didn't buy all or any of your large capacity SS tanks brand new, so you don't know for certain what was exactly but in that tank unless you drained milk out before you cleaned it for sap. What I'm saying is that every farmer I know and that's close to one hundred will put something in a empty nonworking tank or they will scrap it but I know they said that nothing was put in it besides milk and I have a bridge to sell you. So being that everyone has some pieces of used equipment did everyone have that tested for foreign substances for that matter it goes for buckets and totes. We all trust what someone tells us. Second, I only was wondering if there was a way to sanitize COMPLETELY a stainless tank just as conversation piece and the answer is yes. I found out today by a two people that stainless tankers ship milk products to Mississippi and on the return trip they ship a chemical to a lumber company in Wisconsin. At both locations the tanker is sanitized completely and used for the return trip. My source is the driver of the tanker. Makes you want a glass of milk or some cheese doesn't it. The point, stainless can be steriled completely which is good enough for the FDA but not good enough for us evidently.I don't know the procedure to it so I will not be trying to use this tank, instead I will overpay for a farmer to lie to me and I will completely clean it anyways. I thought this was a place to communicate not get hammered on a honest question or thought.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

1st of all 3rd gen. maple, your like the 3rd gen. cranberry growers in Wis., everything handed to them on a silver spoon, probably don't know what it is like to start from scratch. That said I bet you didn't buy all or any of your large capacity SS tanks brand new, so you don't know for certain what was exactly but in that tank unless you drained milk out before you cleaned it for sap. What I'm saying is that every farmer I know and that's close to one hundred will put something in a empty nonworking tank or they will scrap it but I know they said that nothing was put in it besides milk and I have a bridge to sell you. So being that everyone has some pieces of used equipment did everyone have that tested for foreign substances for that matter it goes for buckets and totes. We all trust what someone tells us. Second, I only was wondering if there was a way to sanitize COMPLETELY a stainless tank just as conversation piece and the answer is yes. I found out today by a two people that stainless tankers ship milk products to Mississippi and on the return trip they ship a chemical to a lumber company in Wisconsin. At both locations the tanker is sanitized completely and used for the return trip. My source is the driver of the tanker. Makes you want a glass of milk or some cheese doesn't it. The point, stainless can be steriled completely which is good enough for the FDA but not good enough for us evidently.I don't know the procedure to it so I will not be trying to use this tank, instead I will overpay for a farmer to lie to me and I will completely clean it anyways. I thought this was a place to communicate not get hammered on a honest question or thought.

next the FDA will make us all have Tank fax's (like a car fax) just to make sure were good and not buying a lemon:D oh my god a lemon in the tank:lol:I thought it was funny

[KenWP]

hey Ken I found one of those Deleval milk cans do you want to buy it?:D

I checked the one out at work the other day.The bottom is lead soldered.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I checked the one out at work the other day.The bottom is lead soldered.

just use some food grade paint on it, it will be fine:D

[KenWP]

Wonder if they make food grade poison for smart butts.

[backyard sugaring]

Ggman, You can find stuff that is free or close to it. I use water jugs that you would find in any office building. Buckets from bakeries can be cleaned very easily. 275 gallon totes can be picked up at local breweries or yogurt factories for little money. Find a new piece of stainless and have someone weld you a pan. Mason jars can be washed and sterilized in a dishwasher. Don't be upset with 3rd Gen he is a great resource for us rookies. You will find that this website has some wonderful people who are willing to help. I wish you the best in this hobby,addiction. Lee

[3rdgen.maple]

1st of all 3rd gen. maple, your like the 3rd gen. cranberry growers in Wis., everything handed to them on a silver spoon, probably don't know what it is like to start from scratch. That said I bet you didn't buy all or any of your large capacity SS tanks brand new, so you don't know for certain what was exactly but in that tank unless you drained milk out before you cleaned it for sap. What I'm saying is that every farmer I know and that's close to one hundred will put something in a empty nonworking tank or they will scrap it but I know they said that nothing was put in it besides milk and I have a bridge to sell you. So being that everyone has some pieces of used equipment did everyone have that tested for foreign substances for that matter it goes for buckets and totes. We all trust what someone tells us. Second, I only was wondering if there was a way to sanitize COMPLETELY a stainless tank just as conversation piece and the answer is yes. I found out today by a two people that stainless tankers ship milk products to Mississippi and on the return trip they ship a chemical to a lumber company in Wisconsin. At both locations the tanker is sanitized completely and used for the return trip. My source is the driver of the tanker. Makes you want a glass of milk or some cheese doesn't it. The point, stainless can be steriled completely which is good enough for the FDA but not good enough for us evidently.I don't know the procedure to it so I will not be trying to use this tank, instead I will overpay for a farmer to lie to me and I will completely clean it anyways. I thought this was a place to communicate not get hammered on a honest question or thought.

You could not be any farther from the truth when you tried to judge me and my operation. To clear it up for you I wasnt even handed a silver spoon full of syrup to taste. Being the third generation maple producer involves more than you think. There is one item and only one item that I have in my possesion that remains from my grandfather. And that would be a bulk milk tank and I can still remember the day it was delivered brand new to the farm straight to the sugarhouse. Its is all stainless steel, welded and has never held anything but sap. As far as all the other equipment that used to be in production until I took over is long gone except some galvanized sap buckets that I dont use. You see I have young kids and family members with young kids and I sell to families with young kids and I wanted no part of lead or any other iffy equipment to produce maple syrup. Therefore I phased it all out and spent my own hard earned money to do it. There are zero and I mean zero pieces of equipment that Im not absolutely positve about where it came from or what it held. The only thing that was not replaced with new equipment is a 2 used poly tanks that I bought from a brewery that had ingredient labels and marked food grade approved. My whole point to my previous post is quite straight forward. Just because a trucking company has the proper equipment to sanitize there tankers in order to make them safe for food transfer does not mean that the average joe has that stuff in the corner of their garage or an inspector to approve it cleanliness. You can get upset with me all you care the bottom line is like many have said over and over about such questions is this is, such practices is going to cause the government to come knocking on our doors and telling us what we need to do or shut everyone of us down. If you want to make syrup out of questionable conditions go for it just dont sell it to the public. I would also go back and look at all of Dr Tims post on this subject. He has stated the same things like me again and again. So am I getting a little to harsh on such subjects? You bet I am because producing maple syrup is a great passion of mine and I dont want to regulated by a government that has zero concerns for us little guys for something as little as common sense that we ourselves should all be practicing.

[SapZilla]

First of all... Ken, if you find some poison that can be applied through the internet to thin our the smart butts please let me know.

Second, some of the overposting "maple addicts" Have spent far too much time on this forum. They have become very bored. I've seen them jump on people because they asked questions about oven cleaners. "We just had a thread about oven cleaners", they whined. If your bored here, join a different forum. And how many years can someone add 200 taps per year on a 2'x6'?

[3rdgen.maple]

Ggman, You can find stuff that is free or close to it. I use water jugs that you would find in any office building. Buckets from bakeries can be cleaned very easily. 275 gallon totes can be picked up at local breweries or yogurt factories for little money. Find a new piece of stainless and have someone weld you a pan. Mason jars can be washed and sterilized in a dishwasher. Don't be upset with 3rd Gen he is a great resource for us rookies. You will find that this website has some wonderful people who are willing to help. I wish you the best in this hobby,addiction. Lee

Thank you for the comment. I truly enjoy helping people wether it is with a simple maple question or of another matter. This is one reason why Im on here. I like to help. I also have had and will continue to have questions about producing syrup myself and look to the trader quite often for advice. If I tweek some people the wrong way then I apologize but thats where my passion and concern for myself and others making syrup tends to get in the way. It just makes me cringe when these questions come up on the internet for anyone who produces, consumes, buys or lurcking to get an image painted in their mind about maple producers and their practices.

[3rdgen.maple]

First of all... Ken, if you find some poison that can be applied through the internet to thin our the smart butts please let me know.

Second, some of the overposting "maple addicts" Have spent far too much time on this forum. They have become very bored. I've seen them jump on people because they asked questions about oven cleaners. "We just had a thread about oven cleaners", they whined. If your bored here, join a different forum. And how many years can someone add 200 taps per year on a 2'x6'?

LOL It will be 4 years as a matter of fact. Started at 200 and will end it at 800 on the 2x6 and then the 3x12 arrives and I will keep adding taps to that every year until I keel over. And not to jump on you or anything like that Im not bored at all. I rather enjoy being on the trader as many others do as well. If you read the bylaws you will see what it says about starting new post about threads already started, so you see its not whining and maybe just away to let the guy who started the thread know there are other threads out there on the subject that has advice and information they may indeed be looking for. Yes I am a maple addict and I rather enjoy it. I cant obviously please everyone all the time but if I can please someone sometimes Im good with that. Forgive me for the amount of post I have I was truly unaware that there was a set limit on the trader.

[SapZilla]

Ken! How you coming on that poison?

[SapZilla]

I thought about what I said last night and can see how it may offend someone. I want to clarify that I enjoy reading the posts from most of the frequent users. There are also a lot of people that I would like to hear even more from. There are just a handfull of big mouths who speak arrogantly and counter-constructively, it gets in the way of learning, especially for the new guys.

[Haynes Forest Products]

We know that SS tanks are used for many products and cleaned between uses. I have seen semi trailer used for garbage hauling and then cleaned and used to transport the food you and I eat. As 3rdgen said unless we know the history of a item we DON'T KNOW what the tank has been used for.
When I talk about making a evap out of used SS I mean the EVAP not the ARCH. And when I say the SINK I mean the SINK not the DRAIN and yes food prep is done in the sink day in and day out. So folks when a fellow trader asks a simple question I think its only fair that we give fair and balanced responses. When I say clean and test then thats what I think is the best method. Getting all high and mighty and making fun or ridiculing someone for a fair question will not help Traders that wait in the background to post a question they might have.
Yes its been asked and answered time and time again. But don't most of us have kids? Do we stop answering questions to the second kid because it was asked and answered when the first one inquired. So if I get a Stainless tank from a junk yard and have it cleaned and tested and it comes back certified Clean and Food grade does it matter what was in it? Now you got me to thinking next time the wife looks over at me with that look of desire and and takes me by the hand and starts walking me to the bedroom And I keep thinking about what 3rdgen said about knowing what and when and wondering if FDS is food grade..................STFUC:o

As Rodney King once said....CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG

[3rdgen.maple]

Sapzilla if your still refering to me by all means use my name in your post I have no problems being called out. Arrogant post and counter constructively is exacally what you did. Go back and read your post and please tell me I am wrong. Now if you think my posts are from arrogance and counter constructive then everything I wrote went over your head. If you read back fromt the very first post on this thread you will see there are many who have agreed with me and many who have stated the same points that I have. Happy threw up a link to the FDA website and I will repost them again so you all can see the point that many have tried to explain including myself about using containers being stainless steel or other materials for food storage. Its is pretty straight forward. The FDA does not approve of such practices and if the FDA feels the need to start regulating us because there are such practices being used in the maple industry there are going to be many crying sugarmakers when they either have to shut down or spend alot of coin to be compliant. Heres the first link have a look at it and take note the section on about container prohibitions http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm189215.htm and heres another one http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm188102.htm
So if being concerned about the health and safety of human life and being concerned about where the maple industry is heading when it is our responsibility to use safe practices that have zero concern for contamination or leading our industry down a long and dark road then yeah I guess Im an arrogant counter constructive maple producer that wants the purest maple syrup we all can be proud of producing.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Well the FDA might be our government agency for rule making about food, they at times are more dangerous than any one on here and at times go way over board on their laws and Reg's. They have changed their minds on calcium multiple times since the 50's. Also for allowing Propylene Glycol to be used in food is just RIDICULOUS!!
Now they are trying to pass a law saying we can't have private or community gardens because some one might get sick, you what I say to this?? I can't because they will come knock on my door and I'm not ready for them yet.


No matter what we try to do and self police our industry its only time before the Torrie's come knocking at your sugar house door.
Time to write your Representatives and voice your opinion.

H.R. 875

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.875:

[jmayerl]

OK here goes the pot stirring......I just scored this for my new head/storage tank today from a buddy. It is stamped on the side as made of .250 thick 304 SS weighs about 300lbs holds 200 gallons. We will be laying it on its side as it has 2" threaded ports on both sides. my buddy installed this 12 years ago and just removed it from the plant........guess what was in it and yes i will be using it.

[Jim Schumacher]

Jeff, I don't know what it is but it sure is pretty. There is nothing better then something skinny, tall, has legs, .............. and is made out of stainless steel. Yum.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

red fuming nitric acid?

[KenWP]

I am dieing to find out what was in the tank besides nitrogen. Hate mysteries.

[jmayerl]

Wow that was much quicker than I thought. Ken you hit it on the head just Nitrogen, it was part of the failsafe system at a local Nuclear plant. Now say all you want about it(the nuclear part).

[collinsmapleman2012]

im probably on the wrong track with this but.... that looks like an ro membrane vessel... just a thought

[KenWP]

As long as it dosn't have japanease wrote on it your probbably safe.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im seeing a releaser tank. That thing is way to cool to be a head tank.

[BryanEx]

Im seeing a releaser tank. That thing is way to cool to be a head tank.

Maybe it's just the Canadian in me but I see a home made beer keg in those pics. I have just the spot for it on my pool deck.

[3rdgen.maple]

Maybe it's just the Canadian in me but I see a home made beer keg in those pics. I have just the spot for it on my pool deck.

200 gallon beer keg Bryan!!!!! LOL that would be a big beer keg but I like the way you think. Heres a little preview of Bryan after he finishes off that 200 gallons of beer. LOL Sure wish I knew what this guy was saying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVMnT09NAao&feature=related

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

200 gallon beer keg Bryan!!!!! LOL that would be a big beer keg but I like the way you think. Heres a little preview of Bryan after he finishes off that 200 gallons of beer. LOL Sure wish I knew what this guy was saying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVMnT09NAao&feature=related

and people here tell me I need to find a new hobby!!

[BryanEx]

Sure wish I knew what this guy was saying.
Cool hat and the sash is to die for but he obviously read This Thread (http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=8119) and did not reveal his sources. :D

I also won't make any comments about a giant stainless steel suppository for a few guys I work with either.

[John c]

HOLY COW or should I say MAPLE SYRUP! I checked out for a few months and came back to 8 glorious pages! Well rest assured that I took that stainless steel tank and put it in the back of my pick up and took it to the scrap yard and used the money towards a new 4 X 10 sheet of stainless. It just seemed easier than all that cleaning and wondering!
After reading all these posts, I'm sorry if my one little question ended up getting anybody's feelings hurt. I didn't mean it!

John c.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Yea and some guy went in the scrap yard 10 min later and asked what it was used for and the scrap guy said it came from some guy that makes Maple syrup. The guy bought it and took it home and is going to use it for his maple syrup head tank. When he out grows it he will sell it on the trader and John C will see it and blow the whistle on the guy:o

[3rdgen.maple]

Your close Haynes the guy that finds it at the scrapyard uses it for a Vac booster tank and discovers that the chemicals it once held actually increased his vac levels 2 fold and ahhhh never mind..............
Hey John where this scrapyard anyways????

[John c]

Your close Haynes the guy that finds it at the scrapyard uses it for a Vac booster tank and discovers that the chemicals it once held actually increased his vac levels 2 fold and ahhhh never mind..............
Hey John where this scrapyard anyways????

Haha, well anyone around this area knows we are limited on the number of scrap yards, however there are a few and I did take it to the one with the highest turn around rate, so I sure hope I put this tank out of it's misery!
Awe man, why did you guys have to get me wondering again!:confused:

[Haynes Forest Products]

And wins first prize at the fair for his effferts:o

[John c]

And wins first prize at the fair for his effferts:o

Yer killin me! :D

[BryanEx]

John c... great to see you have a sense of humour and especially with some of our resident entertainers. ;)