Leader Vortex & Max Pans

[AMS1986]

I am looking for people out there who have this set up!! We are looking at getting this and would like some info on what people think. Does it evaporate well, does it work as advertised, what do you think of it? Is it worth the investment. Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

thanks a lot

[adk1]

I am looking for people out there who have this set up!! We are looking at getting this and would like some info on what people think. Does it evaporate well, does it work as advertised, what do you think of it? Is it worth the investment. Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

thanks a lot

Head West to Swanton :)

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Head West to Swanton :)

what sugar maker is in swanton?

[Killington Maple]

If you buy the Max pans you'll love them. However, I just converted my wood arch (Inferno) to oil, because of the wood not burning properly in the arch. Unless the wood is really dry, the performance was totally unacceptable. With perfect wood I was getting 165 gallons per hour through my 3x10. But the average was around 110 -125 per hour.
I haven't heard any comments on here about Leader's new Vortec wood arch.

[AMS1986]

does anyone else know anything about Leaders Vortex arch and max/revolution pan combo? Any input is greatly appreciated!

[Dave Y]

Buy a Force 5!

[Kirk]

We went with a 30 x 10 raised max, revolution, vortex arch this year. Overall, very happy with the machine. Does about 125 gph with all fine split softwood - you do have to load quite frequently. You don't save wood with load times, you save wood at the end of the boil with more evaporation per size of the machine. Leader recommends 30" seasoned hardwood, which we didn't have any of this year. Overall, very happy with machine and service. We recommend. Look at a hood or steamaway, the max pan splashes like crazy and makes a mess.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

If you buy the Max pans you'll love them. However, I just converted my wood arch (Inferno) to oil, because of the wood not burning properly in the arch. Unless the wood is really dry, the performance was totally unacceptable. With perfect wood I was getting 165 gallons per hour through my 3x10. But the average was around 110 -125 per hour.
I haven't heard any comments on here about Leader's new Vortec wood arch.

All the manufacturers say to burn seasoned wood and with out a doubt that's what should be done for efficiency, but the first couple nights I helped Randy and his Force 5 4x14 I was throwing ice covered snow logs into his arch we were only getting 10 min load times it didn't seem to matter, that beast just ate anything up and it was cranking out the syrup. Once he got into good hard wood and dry I know we got up to and around 30 minute loads. We never did see how much it boils off an hour but I would be interested to know. His first boil if I remember correctly was 2000 gal of concentrate and I think we were there for 7 hrs or so, so that would be around 285 an hour
Can't wait for the Maple Rama when they put all the top manfacturers rigs against each others.

[dabamvt]

Can't wait for the Maple Rama when they put all the top manfacturers rigs against each others.

When and where is Maple Rama?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

http://www.mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=12843

[Dill]

What about the max pans and the new style air tight arch?

[Brent]

A local guy I know well converted from regular pans to MaxiFlu, with an oil fired arch. He did nothing with the oil burner and his stack temp dropped 50 degrees and the GPH increased. That much more heat was going into the boil. He was thrilled. Figured he'd save a few thousand dollars a season on oil.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Just a silly question for you. Why would you want to spend that much money on a maxflue pan? Turn the RO up another notch and you have increased that much more production.

[tom jr.]

what is the life span of an r.o. how much do they cost (not just the machine its self but the extra heated room and the power to run it and the time to wash it plus send it out every year to make shure the membrains are not passing sugar:o)that max pan is looking better and better:lol:

[Randy Brutkoski]

Have you ever seen the discarge of water from an r.o. ? It is by far the most efficient piece of equiptment in the sugaring industry. I dont have Max pans and my stack only gets up to 450 degrees.

[brookledge]

Well if you already have an RO and still want to increase your efficiency then a max flue pan helps just like adding a steam away. I know producers that have big ROs and still use steam a way. And steam aways aren't cheap either
Keith

[Thad Blaisdell]

On any size rig there comes a point on just how much syrup can be made with it. Max flue or not the gallons of syrup per hour can only go so high. Then there is the question of filtering it after its made, if you produce it faster than you can filter then what good is that.

I boil on a home made arch, front and flue pan made by Thor new this year, an old steamaway, and and an older hood, I am using 2 carlin 801's and pushing 29 gph of oil. Putting 12% concentrate to her I averaged .54 gallons of oil to a gallon of syrup. Making in the ballpark of 60+/- gph. I figure that my flue was taking off roughly 325 gph and the front pan and hood were taking another 100. Using those numbers I can deduce that using 14% next year will yeild 70 gallons of syrup per hour at .43 gph oil. My rear pan cost me new this year $7500 (6x10). Try to get a max pan for that much. As I will agree there is more than one way to skin a cat but these numbers work quite nicely for me.

[802maple]

All I am going to say is there are people that know I was in St. Albans at 3:45 today, it is now
11:56 and we made 80 gallons of syrup between then and now. Take out the 2 hours I took to get home and a 1 and a half hours to change and eat supper, that leaves 4 and a half to make that amount of syrup. Granted the RO was turned on at 4 to start recirculating, but the evaporator didn't get started until 8:45 and shut off at 10:45. In that amount of time we burnt 28 gallons of oil at about a 3rd of gallon to every gallon of syrup. Some one would have a hard time convincing me to spend my money anywhere else other than a RO and get a cheap used smaller evaporator.

[3rdgen.maple]

Why do you RO guys just keep pounding away at the ones who dont have or dont care to have one? Look at it this way in the end we are getting the same product. how we get there and how much we want to get is our choice. Wether a guy wants a nice big max flue pan or a steamaway or heck a 30x100 foot rig or a 2x6 with an RO is an individuals choice. Seems like everytime a thread comes up about evaporators or enhancements someone always jumps in with the RO deal. Its not like the thought probably didnt go through there head. Do we sit there and say heck why spend all the money, on extra tanks, electricity, maintenance, filters, membranes,heated room blah blah blah when you can just go out and get a steamaway and a max pan and have a one time cost. Nope didnt think so. I dont mean to rip any throats out but darn this thread was about the leader vortec and max pans.

[802maple]

Sorry if I sound like I am pounding on this, just my opinion, sorry to have one. It just seems like terrible waste of money to go along with any other technology IMHO. I don't care what somebody boils on, they can hollow out a log and throw hot rocks in if they want to. LOL

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

, hollow out a log and throw hot rocks in if they want to. LOL

good idea might try that, but wouldn't the log start to burn?:confused:

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Sorry if I sound like I am pounding on this, just my opinion, sorry to have one. It just seems like terrible waste of money to go along with any other technology IMHO. I don't care what somebody boils on, they can hollow out a log and throw hot rocks in if they want to. LOL

And with the right RO and recirculation, you'd only have to heat the rocks once:D

[adk1]

watched it boil water yesterday at the open house. really cool, way out of my league but I am sure to the larger producer it is something to consider

[gearpump]

Does anybody know what the deal is with the Leader setup with the oil burner under the flue pan? I am liking that setup. It would be nice not to have the burner sticking out in the open. I would also like to see more of these companies spend time on increasing oil usage on small evaporators.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Why do you RO guys just keep pounding away at the ones who dont have or dont care to have one? Look at it this way in the end we are getting the same product. how we get there and how much we want to get is our choice. Wether a guy wants a nice big max flue pan or a steamaway or heck a 30x100 foot rig or a 2x6 with an RO is an individuals choice. Seems like everytime a thread comes up about evaporators or enhancements someone always jumps in with the RO deal. Its not like the thought probably didnt go through there head. Do we sit there and say heck why spend all the money, on extra tanks, electricity, maintenance, filters, membranes,heated room blah blah blah when you can just go out and get a steamaway and a max pan and have a one time cost. Nope didnt think so. I dont mean to rip any throats out but darn this thread was about the leader vortec and max pans.

I agree with Thad and Jerry and everyone else on the RO board. Some of us don't choose to use them as it is a personal choice, not because we don't know their benefits or can't afford them. I agree that everytime a high efficiency system comes up other than an RO, the question almost turns into a bashing against whoever posted it because the are not considering an RO. Nothing against Thad, Jerry or anyone else as they know way more about making syrup than I do, but seems the post almost always heads in the right direction. Anyone that has been on here more than 5 times knows the opinions expressed about an RO. :)

[802maple]

I eat, live , think,and work for my living in maple 24-7- 365 and I sometimes forget that there are people out there just trying to have a good hobby and not make a living at it and for that I am sorry if I over stepped my boundaries. I have done this for a lot of years and I know where bad money can be spent and good money overlooked, if it really means hacking out a living in this industry. You can spend alot of money in a sugarhouse that really gets you no where, when that money should have been spent in the woods.
I now will now start putting time and money in my hobby (or money pit) as some call it "racing my way to bankruptcy" and putting pipe line up for next year that I started last week. I will be checking every once in a while for personal messages, but you won't be hearing from me much until next winter. Have a good summer and I will see you guys next year.

[3rdgen.maple]

As soon as I hit submit I knew I was in trouble lol. Guys let me try and reword what I was trying to express. An RO has its place. There is no doubt about it. And yes to get the most bang for the buck RO is it. The thing is it just plain gets old reading threads after threads turn into and RO thread. If a guy is making syrup on a turkey fryer and looking to upgrade someone chimes in and says buy an RO its the best bang for your buck. Yeah we know but like Brandon said for some of us its not like we cant afford one if we are thinking about spending big bucks on an upgrade. Its just not what some of us want. Money can be made without an ro it has been proven for many many many generations of sugarmakers. There is more than one way to make money and this is what is great about america we have the choice to make it the way we want too. Jerry have a great summer and be sure to check in once in awhile.

[Tmeeeh]

I went from a 4X12 forced draft with pre heater to the 2X10 vortex max/steamaway with 2X4 revolution syrup pan. At 20 to 25 GPH of syrup the new evaporator makes syrup slightly faster than the old one. I RO the sap to around 12%. After the USDA REAP and USDA NRCS grants and selling my old evaporator the switch cost me $4,500. Went from 78 gallons of syrup per cord to 180 gallons per cord. The smaller evaporator leaves 1/2 as much syrup to darken between boils resulting in lighter syrup all season. The vortex heats up faster and boils hard even into the corners of the front pan. It makes virtually no visible smoke. Atmospheric quality is important to me..see my website.

There are plenty of good evaporator and arch designs out there. The idea is to have RO and Evaporator enough to spend a maximum of 3 hours of hard boiling per day. I chose Leader because I feel the after purchase service is very good.

It's been said before but syrup is only finished in the sugar house. It's mostly made all year and during the season when I'm in the woods cutting non-maples, working with pipeline and tubing and making sure the systems are working right when the sap is running.

That's how we made .65 gallons per tap this year and have averaged .49 gallons per tap for the 11 years since we started focusing on the woods.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think Tim summed it up good concerning his 2x10 Leader Vortex with max flue pan and steamaway. He could make 4 to 5 gph of syrup boiling raw sap or 20 to 25 gph with 12% RO sap. Definitely the wave of the future with these high efficiency small evaporators with a big RO. I think Tim said he was evaporating off about 175 gph with a 2x10 evaporator with a 6' max flue pan and steamaway which would be some indication of how well the max flue pans and Vortex arch performs which is what this thread is about.

PS Nice picture of Tim firing his 2x10 Vortex on the Leader open house and spring sale brochure that came out a couple of weeks ago. Always nice to see trader member pictures on brochures or in the maple news.

[DrTimPerkins]

... It's been said before but syrup is only finished in the sugar house. It's mostly made all year and during the season when I'm in the woods cutting non-maples, working with pipeline and tubing and making sure the systems are working right when the sap is running.

That's how we made .65 gallons per tap this year and have averaged .49 gallons per tap for the 11 years since we started focusing on the woods.

While it's a message that's been said before, it CAN'T be said often enough. You've got the results to prove it works too. Great job!

[tuckermtn]

to answer gearpumps question- Fullers Sugarhouse in Lancaster has one of the prototype oil burner under the flu pan evaporators. Dave Fuller likes the set up quite a bit. Give him a call and I'm sure he will fill you in. Just an FYI, he is also a Leader dealer.

[3rdgen.maple]

I definately cannot and will not argue that the money is made in the woods. If you dont get the sap you wont get the money.

[Dave Y]

If you have been paying attention, Lapierre has been making and oil fired evaporator with the burner under the flue pan for some time now. It is the Turbo 2. It will boil faster than the standard set up and use less fuel because it keeps the heat in the arch longer. Unfortunately it has been mostly rejected by us know it all Americans.

[gearpump]

The Turbo is nice, but I believe that a 4'x14' is the smallest size they make. Maybe with all the advancements with RO's and small evaporator combo's they will design something smaller.

[Dave Y]

The book shows it as small as a 3x10.



The Turbo is nice, but I believe that a 4'x14' is the smallest size they make. Maybe with all the advancements with RO's and small evaporator combo's they will design something smaller.