Question about wall height in a new shack?

[bigschuss]

I've been kind of lurking on this forum for about a year now....joined a few months ago. Thought I'd introduce myself. I live at 2,000 ft. in elevation in the northwest corner of Mass. and tap about 12 to 15 trees. I still have 2 to 3 feet of snow in places, and half of my trees haven't even started running yet. I boil in an outdoor evaporator on an 18x18 pan. Been doing it for about 5 or 6 years.

Last summer I built a 12x16 root cellar out of cement blocks. And this summer I plan to finally build a sugar shack on top of it. I bought a 2x4 evaporator from Bill Mason, as I plan to expand to about 30 trees.

I think I'd read just about every thread in the Sugar Shack design forum in preparation for my build. What a wealth of information! Got a quick question as I ramp up to build the shack. I'd like to go with a 10 foot wall (a bottom plate, double top plates = 4.5" and studs 9' 7.5"). Is there structurally any problem with that high of a wall using 2x4's?

Thanks in advance

My current set-up:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/P3200002.jpg


The root cellar and soon to be sugar shack:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/P3310040.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/P3310041.jpg

[SSFLLC]

Not sure about the walls. But if thats 2x6 floor joist. Your way under built to put a evaporator on it. Keith

[bigschuss]

Hi Keith. Those are 2x10's.

Blair




Not sure about the walls. But if thats 2x6 floor joist. Your way under built to put a evaporator on it. Keith

[Kev]

2x4's are fine for your walls
you should make sure you lap the top plates at the corners

[heus]

A sugar house with a basement. Thats kind of a neat thing to have.

[StayinLowTech]

Hi - I am using my new sugarhouse for the first season this year. My walls are 8' high and seem to be fine. The extra height of 10' walls may possibly help with reducing steam at head height, but with my 2x6 evaporator totally cranked I rarely have had steam in my way. When my cupola doors stick shut it is hard enough to give them a knock open at the 8' height plus cupola. Also I would worry about a wood floor, with lots of flaming embers escaping from the firebox - hope you are planning on some kind of fireproofing. Enjoy the project and Good Luck.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

My ceiling is 10' + but I have 3 courses of 8" blocks laid up and walls frame on top of them so I can wash down and not worry about it with the block walls. I would think you would be fine with 10' walls with 2x4s with the size of the building.

[wiam]

My sugarhouse has 10' 6" walls. I have been very happy. I built to be able to put a steamaway on top of a raised flue on blocks. Now I have a drop tube 2x6 on blocks and no steamaway, but my concentrate tank is right up to the truss rafters and will feed my preheater with no problem. I always say height is cheap, roof is expensive.

William

[3rdgen.maple]

If you have a good pitched roof with steel on it to rid itself of snow you should be fine. Alot of old timers used 2x4 2 foot on center for walls. In fact my sugarhouse is just that. Been standing with no problems for about 25 years and the walls are over 24 feet long. It had over 4 feet of snow on it at one point this winter. Not that I recomend leaving 4 feet of snow on your roof lol.

[bigschuss]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

3rdgen.maple, I was thinking of using rough sawn 2x4's, which makes the idea of building it 2 ft. OC even more plausible.

And yes, I will indeed need to put down some type of a heat shield underneath the evaporator.

Thanks again....

[Ausable]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

3rdgen.maple, I was thinking of using rough sawn 2x4's, which makes the idea of building it 2 ft. OC even more plausible.

And yes, I will indeed need to put down some type of a heat shield underneath the evaporator.

Thanks again....

Hey bigschuss -- Something else -- I noticed the root celler - What a great place to store Sap. I imagine the temperature is always about 50 - 55F right? and it is dark and sap will stay cool and not freeze. So when needed - pump it up to your feed tank. Now - all future Sugar Shacks will be built with root cellers for sap storage -- bigschuss - a brilliant idea you have there.

[maple flats]

An evaporator get heavy and must be perfectly level for best results. I would put jack posts under the evaporator if possible. I had a wooden floor for about 4 years before pouring a concrete one, they work. Even better if you could pour 3" concrete on top of plastic laid over that. As for wall height, the maple producers manual suggests 8' height but I have 10 and if I ever add a steam-away it will be needed. As for steam, you still need a hood for steam, my 10' ceiling with good size cupola still left the sugarhouse full of steam until I added a homemade hood. Many sugarhouse designs have basements (for syrup storage, keeps cooler)

[Ausable]

Dave - I'm constantly amazed at how little I know - This is the first time I ever heard that about sugar house basements and it makes perfect sense. We keep forgetting how savvy and practical our forefathers were -- Mike

[PerryW]

No problem w/ 10 foot wall w/ 2x4's 24" O.C. My only comment would be,"Why do you need 10' high walls? " Old timer told me, keep your walls low so the steam doesn't condense and drip back in the pan. Also, board the roof up tight (don't use strapping). The exposed metal will drip on your head and annoy you.

I put my 3x10 evaporator in a 12x16' sugarhouse w/ 7 foot walls. Just built a 6x10 shed on the front for extra room.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/perryW/SugarhouseSteam.jpg

[Kev]

Dave - I'm constantly amazed at how little I know - This is the first time I ever heard that about sugar house basements and it makes perfect sense. We keep forgetting how savvy and practical our forefathers were -- Mike

no doubt. like smart enough to dig a hole in the ground on a hill. Put a drain in it, that goes out of the bottom /side of the hole and down hill out to the slope. cut chunks of ice in the winter. cover it with sawdust, put a roof over it. and have ice in the summer :)
or build a shack over a small spring and have a cooler.

[Ausable]

no doubt. like smart enough to dig a hole in the ground on a hill. Put a drain in it, that goes out of the bottom /side of the hole and down hill out to the slope. cut chunks of ice in the winter. cover it with sawdust, put a roof over it. and have ice in the summer :)
or build a shack over a small spring and have a cooler.

Howdy - Years ago I had a copy of a book called "Grandfathers book of Country Things" - In which an old New England Farmer in the early 1900's teaches his Grandson the Old Ways of doing things. Making your own plug chewing tobacco, red paint, hinges etc. -- wished I still had it -- Mike

[bigschuss]

No problem w/ 10 foot wall w/ 2x4's 24" O.C. My only comment would be,"Why do you need 10' high walls? "

Ausable, to be honest, I never really designed the root cellar with the thought of storing sap...but yes, I guess it would work for that as well.

Perry, my only real desire for a 10 ft. wall was to have additional shelf storage up high and out of the way. Also, I plan to have a shed built of one side for my tractor. Having a 10 foot wall would allow me plenty of room to attach the ledger board up high and still have plenty of clearance for the tractor.

mapleflats, good suggestion for jack posts. I was thinking about a hood. Didn't know if I'd need one or not? Sounds like yes.

Thanks for the suggestions. Looking forward to getting into this project as soon as the snow melts.

Blair

[Kev]

Howdy - Years ago I had a copy of a book called "Grandfathers book of Country Things" - In which an old New England Farmer in the early 1900's teaches his Grandson the Old Ways of doing things. Making your own plug chewing tobacco, red paint, hinges etc. -- wished I still had it -- Mike
sorry not trying to highjack your thread bigschuss


http://www.amazon.com/Grandfathers-country-things-Walter-Needham/dp/B0007FNKCS

[Kev]

on needing jack posts in the basement. that really depends almost as much on what type of lumber you used as it does the size of the joists.
but putting them in before any sagging can occure from the weight of the evap. is much easier than getting it jacked back up to level if the floor does sag. IMHO

[3rdgen.maple]

Geez Kev are you addicted to the trader or what? Over 300 post in the first month. LOL I think you need some sap.

[Kev]

Geez Kev are you addicted to the trader or what? Over 300 post in the first month. LOL I think you need some sap.

oh good lord... you are right!
that and some real paying work..... ;)
anyone have 12 step program for post reduction?

[bigschuss]

on needing jack posts in the basement. that really depends almost as much on what type of lumber you used as it does the size of the joists.
but putting them in before any sagging can occure from the weight of the evap. is much easier than getting it jacked back up to level if the floor does sag. IMHO

This duscussion of jack posts has me thinking....just how the heck much weight does the floor need to carry?

My evaporator from Mason....probably not more than 75 pounds.
85 firebricks @ 2 pounds each.....170 pounds
20 gallons of sap @ 9 pounds...180

So, we're talking about 400 pounds? I used 2x10 pressure treated SYP 16" OC.

Should I double up the joists under the evaporator just to be safe?

Blair

[Kev]

This duscussion of jack posts has me thinking....just how the heck much weight does the floor need to carry?

My evaporator from Mason....probably not more than 75 pounds.
85 firebricks @ 2 pounds each.....170 pounds
20 gallons of sap @ 9 pounds...180

So, we're talking about 400 pounds? I used 2x10 pressure treated SYP 16" OC.

Should I double up the joists under the evaporator just to be safe?

Blair

your span is how long? (lenght of joists)
SYP treated? Cool
southern yelow pine treated is hard to find around here. its usually fir or soft pine. if thats what it is and your evap only weights 400 you have nothing to worry about. unless your span is crazy long. and I do not think from the picture I looked at the other day that it could be.

[bigschuss]

your span is how long? (lenght of joists)
SYP treated? Cool
southern yelow pine treated is hard to find around here. its usually fir or soft pine. if thats what it is and your evap only weights 400 you have nothing to worry about. unless your span is crazy long. and I do not think from the picture I looked at the other day that it could be.

The joists span 12 ft.

Thanks for the input.

Blair

[Brokermike]

Just a thought but in my experience there are lot and lots of spills in a sugarhouse. I would be inclined to pipe in a few floor drains.

I built mine out of 2x4 rough cut and the walls, when measured from the floor are about 8'6".

That seems more than adequate and it lets me store all of my buckets up in the rafters without much difficulty

[bigschuss]

Just a thought but in my experience there are lot and lots of spills in a sugarhouse. I would be inclined to pipe in a few floor drains.

I built mine out of 2x4 rough cut and the walls, when measured from the floor are about 8'6".

That seems more than adequate and it lets me store all of my buckets up in the rafters without much difficulty

Great tip! I think I will indeed do that.

And yes...I was in my garage this weekend that has a 10 ft. ceiling and I realized that that is WAY TOO much. 8.5' to 9' seems like it would be perfect.

Thanks.

[RipTyd]

Hey Bigchuss, I like the 10 foot walls , sounds like you will have a fine sugar shack . Looking foward to seeing some pictures of it.

[bigschuss]

Hey Bigchuss, I like the 10 foot walls , sounds like you will have a fine sugar shack . Looking foward to seeing some pictures of it.

Hey Rip....thanks. Funny, I actually met with a friend of mine Thursday night and we were pouring over some print-outs of YOUR shack from photobucket kind of comparing what you did with what I want to do. I see you went with a 10' wall...which leaves you with a nice shed with lots of headroom. Love it.

I'll be sure to snap some pics as I go.