Small time sap for syrup questions

[mathprofdk]

Hi all,

I just tapped my first two trees this year, and I'm looking to expand. Since I live in the suburbs, it's hard to expand on my own. I posted a Craigslist add and got a few replies, which is great. A couple are from other residents with 1-3 trees in their yards, and one was from a farm with a bunch of maple trees, looking to maybe sell syrup next year.

Two questions - what's an appropriate ratio of syrup in return for sap that's simple for people to understand on a really small scale? I mean, if I tap a single mature tree at my neighbor down the block, I'm maybe getting 40 gallons of sap for the season. Since I can make roughly a gallon of syrup, should I just offer them a quart? Too little? Any ideas?

My second question is regarding the farm. The guy has a slew of maples that he's more than happy to let me tap. He's not too worried about how much syrup they get back, but they're interested in selling it. This kind of freaks me out, as I just started this year and made 2+ gallons on a turkey fryer. Heck, I don't even have my arch planned for next year, much less made and tested. Should I even try to make a deal? The guy was really cool about it, and it was definitely informal.

I'd just hate to have him selling something that I made. Maybe I could cook it down to nearly syrup stage and let him finish it off? That way, the sugar content could be on him rather than me? In that case, what would you use to transport the bulk syrup? I've been canning everything in little jars so far this year.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
~DK

[supersapper]

i would give him a pint. you are doing all the work and have the expense.

[supersapper]

as for your second ? split the sap with him, 2/3 you, 1/3 him. let him make his own and assume the responsibility!

[happy thoughts]

A quart/tap sounds about right to me. That's what I've given my neighbor in the past for allowing me to tap an old sugar maple. He was more than happy.

I'd feel the same as you letting someone else sell my syrup. If your farm guy is cool then you should be able to be honest with him. Maybe you can work something out where he helps you more in the processing or suggest a way he can use the syrup without selling the syrup outright. I'm thinking candy, coated nuts, etc here.

At any rate he's probably a good contact to cultivate imho, especially if you'll be needing fire wood or even a larger space to boil. You may just find a willing partner and a whole lot more.

Good luck on your enterprisei. As you've already found, this is quite an addicting hobbv :)

[sugardaddy's]

I'd go with a pint at the most. Or two half pints in the flat glass syrup bottles. It will look better. And it's really just a way to say thank you.

[Kev]

some of the 1 or 2 trees per owner gave next to nothing this year. I still gave them pints (in a couple of cases I didnt get 6 gallon of sap from them)
other places had great producing trees and more trees. I gave them a qt.
most are very happy with the arrangement. Lots of these people say "oh let me give you something for it you put in all the work and expense." I allways decline, but tell them they can donate to the fuel cost for more :)

as a hobbiest in our state. you are opening a big bag of worms if the guy is selling syrup you make without an approved kitchen. i personaly would not touch it with a ten foot pole.
the advice of the previous poster is spot on. you provide the taps/ buckets and split the sap. he can do what ever he wants with his share of the sap from there.

OR
bite the bullet and get with your heath dept. find out if they or the state health dept. would be the agency that inspects a sugaring operation in your area. and just go for it
Here in my county. If you are going to produce for retail it is the local county. if it is for wholesale it is a tri county(regional) health dept.
in maplemounders case it is the state.
I wish it was under the IDA or USDA myself. as it is in many states. but as the saying goes
wish in one hand, S@*t in the other and what do you have? a hand full of crap LOL

[mathprofdk]

as a hobbiest in our state. you are opening a big bag of worms if the guy is selling syrup you make without an approved kitchen. i personaly would not touch it with a ten foot pole.


Thanks, Kev. I like the pint or so for the 1 or 2 tree people, and I totally agree about the second arrangement. I might see if he'd be willing to let me tap and maybe collect the sap for him - maybe offer some advice on an arch - but no producing syrup to sell.

This just really confirmed for me what I was already thinking.

Thanks for the great advice all!

~DK

[40to1]

Here's my $0.02....

I offer a 1/2 pint per tap, and my neighbors are getting a deal. I pay the neighbors back in half-pint bottles. It seems like more - rather than just getting one bottle. So in a way, I'm paying them back with glass.

But figure the math: on paper you can usually get a quart of syrup per tap. There are two pints per quart, so paying a pint per tap would be 50%. That's crazy-generous. A half pint per tap is 25% which is still way high - it's a better return than Bernie Madoff could do. If I could do it again, I would offer a 1/4 pint per tap, but giving them nip bottles didn't seem to be an option.
Hopefully the trees will overperform and you'll do better than that. However, you might want to explain at the outset, that if you get nothing - they get nothing. I thought about giving them a percentage, but with a good year like I just had, I was the one busting my tail, not the tree owners. I wanted all the profit.

What's crazy about all this is I remember reading thread on this site that big landowners get only 1+ ounce/tap (a gallon per 100 taps). That's the only way to do it. You and I pay too much for our sap and we have to burn so much wood, and lug so much sap just to pay off the tree owners. But we do it for fun, right? Right??

[PerryW]

I think 40 cents per taphole is about the going rate.

[3rdgen.maple]

I would not go by tap count at all. Rather get yourself a sap hydrometer and keep track of the sap gathered and sugar content of each persons land. From that point do the calculations to get yourself that landowners average syrup produced off their trees. Think about that cause what if you get into a tree that out produces all the others per tap but the sugar content is very low in comparison and you end up making less syrup but you went with the generic 40 gallons to 1 ratio. Or there trees are lemons and you have to stick to your word of whatever % you proised per tap. You ripped yourself off is the answer to that. I would be generous and give them 25% of the syrup produced of that property. It is fair in my opinion as you get 75% more syrup than you can make without the trees. As far as what they do with the syrup who cares. You did your part of the bargain and once it leaves your hands and goes into theirs they have the right to do whatever they want with it. Then go out and undercut the people he's selling it to lol. Kidding.