The first draw

[danno]

This is where I've been having my problems. I am boiling concentrated sap - usually between 8-11%. When I'm shutting down for the night (wood fired), the syrup pan continues to go closer to syrup during the cool down, but is mixing so there is no draw.

When I start up the next day, the center channels boil first and hardest and everything is mixed in the fron pan anyway. This causes a difficult first draw - reaching well past syrup.

What I've started to do is begin a draw at 216 or 217 just to get the syrup moving, get the thin stuff out and move the center channels closer to the draw off. I often throw a couple of gallons of the 216-217 syrup back into the flue pan. This seems to be working for me and was wondering how others handle this.

After the first draw, things usually stay smooth as long as I fire consistently and keep the sap levels where they should be. Temp on auto draw does not vary more than a couple of degrees. If I'm drawing syrup at 219, I don't like temps to get above 220 or below 218. During that first draw, I've seen it creep up to 224 and then quickly bottom out to 214-215 and have burnt the pan even though there was plenty of sap in it.

[mellondome]

When I shut down, I draw off the almost finished "sweet" in a separate container ( usually the last and half next to last sections). Then open the float to fill the front pan to a "safe level" to absorb the residual heat from the arch.

When I start back up, I let the front pan come to a boil. then I gradually add the "sweet" that I drew off the previous run to the draw off box. This will make the first draw be almost the same as any other draw.

[talahi maple products]

I was having the same problem, So I decided to pull the almost syrup off @ 217/218 . And I finish it in a 16x16 propane pan I have. Instead of adding it back in & cooking it again the next day. My problem is I only can draw from one side so adding it back was building to much niter and it was getting darker. By finishing on propane while it's still warm, I seem to be making better syrup. I also filter it coming off the pan, Filters easier at that temp,and I filter again after its finished on the propane.
One extra step extra but makes nice clear syrup.;)

[wiam]

Define well past syrup. How deep are you running. I run about 1.75" and boiling about same concentrate. I have a big draw first time. Temp sometimes gets up to 12-14 above boiling, then I just thin it down with sweet from back of front pan.

William

[hambone]

Great question! I always get nervous when it starts running up to 10 or 11 degrees above,(boiling water that day) during a draw off. The hydrometer says it is syrup around 7 degrees but sometimes it runs right up. No burnt pan yet but it sure gets me nervous. I would love to prevent it from happening.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

depending on the size of the rig and how deep you run depends on how much you would draw off. I do the same as mellondome. The only thing different is I preheat mine on a turkey fryer stand before adding it back in.

[Brian Ryther]

I start the fire under the side of the arch that the draw off will be. I get the draw off side boiling before the fresh flue sap side. This way I begin establishing a graident near the draw off. I do check for syrup in the second chanel back from the drawoff box with the scoop often while things are getting up to temp.

[Dave Puhl]

This is what I do..I am runin an 1" deep..I shut the inlet valve off... after it gets up to temp I take and draw off a small amount and dump it back in on the inlet side ..my evap. likes to make syrup in the center till you get a gradiant going ....once you are getting a good boil on the draw off side you should have yoour gradiant ...dont forget to turn the valve back on...

[danno]

Define well past syrup. How deep are you running. I run about 1.75" and boiling about same concentrate. I have a big draw first time. Temp sometimes gets up to 12-14 above boiling, then I just thin it down with sweet from back of front pan.

William

I run 1.75" as well.

I'd define 12-14 past boiling as well beyond syrup. My pans start acting very badly when I'm in that neighborhood. Things are thickening very quickly in your pans at that point and not moving toward the draw off well, the bubbles almost take on a tight foam consistency and don't allow the steam to escape and my syrup starts to go very dark at those temps. Figure if you're boiling at 212 (give or take), and syrup is at 219 (give or take), 14 over would take you to 226. That's not a number I like to see. If syrup is at 219, I don't like going over 220, maybe 220.5

All good ideas. I've tried spraying sap out of a spray bottle on the center channels, but this does not seem to be enough. I hate turning the blower off and opening the doors, but have to do that occasionally. I think the best thing you can do is start the fire on the draw side and get the thin syrup out to start moving the heavy syrup towrds the draw.

[Big_Eddy]

Why would you dump it back into the flue pan? Drain the draw off channel's "almost syrup into" a pail, dump it back into the first syrup pan channel. That will push the middle forward to the draw off channel where you want it anyway and it will be followed by what you just moved.

After spending that much time getting it almost syrup, can't understand why you would want to dilute it back to sap concentrations.

[PerryW]

Great question! I always get nervous when it starts running up to 10 or 11 degrees above,(boiling water that day) during a draw off. The hydrometer says it is syrup around 7 degrees but sometimes it runs right up. No burnt pan yet but it sure gets me nervous. I would love to prevent it from happening.

When I start seeiing 9 or 10 on the dial thermometer, I temporarily stop the draw-off, grab my dipper and lay a pint or more of hot sap across the compartment nearest the draw-off. With a little trial & error, and you can immediately bring the temp back to 7 and resume the draw-off.

[Amber Gold]

I was getting similar problems as you and this is what I do when I started boiling concentrate, especially high concentrate. Some of this is pieced together from a Goodrich seminar and my experience. I'm boiling 8-15%, depending on the night.

First off, I think you're running too deep...the pan will run better ~1"...the extra depth in the pan doesn't gain you anything other than bigger draws and more burnt syrup when you mess up...syrup burns whether it's 1" deep or 1.75" deep, and darker syrup I think.

Second, when you shut down for the night draw off ~1 gallon of sweet w/ the valve between the pans shut off. Run the evap almost until you're out of sap....I stop adding wood w/ ~5gal of sap left in the tank. When you start up next time, the sap which has evaporated from the syrup pan (mine's about 0.5"D the next day) will allow for unsweet to come in from the flue pan and kind of establish a gradient on the non-drawoff side.

The next day, start the fire and when things get hot, open the valve between the pans. When the pan's about at depth (pan should be boiling pretty good at this point), add the sweet you took off into the drawoff box.

Now sit back and keep feeding the fire making sure all floats are working properly and your normal start up routine.

I watch my therm. and when I see it hitting 4F, I start doing the apron test to find out where things are closer to syrup...sometimes it's in the middle channel, but not always. If I start making syrup somewhere I don't want, I'll either scoop it to the drawoff channel, or thin it out from the non-sweet side.

If the temp's around 6F, and I see things are closer to syrup somewhere else in the pan, I'll crack the drawoff valve to get stuff moving. As the temp's come up, I open the valve more and more trying to keep temp's stable. I drawoff into a drawoff tank so I can be doing other things while it's drawing off..usually I'm doing the apron test to make I'm not making syrup I don't want to.

Since I've started doing this, the draws have been going very smoothly, temp. spikes have been reduced, and I'm not making syrup in 2-3 bays at once.

Hope this helps.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

First off, I think you're running too deep...the pan will run better ~1"...the extra depth in the pan doesn't gain you anything other than bigger draws and more burnt syrup when you mess up...syrup burns whether it's 1" deep or 1.75" deep, and darker syrup I think.

Second, when you shut down for the night draw off ~1 gallon of sweet w/ the Hope this helps.

so does darker syrup actually burn quicker than like Fancy? its all the same density.