My new (to me) RO in the basement...

[Bucket Head]

Since there is no sap due to the cold weather, I figured I would share some photo's. This is an Airablo Lynx 160, which I'm almost certain was made in 1991. I "modified" it so it would go down the basement stairs and we could tip the back half over for installing and removing the membranes. It will stay a two piece unit for now but I can bolt it together later on if it makes its way into a sugarhouse. The previous owner says its a 160, but the owner before him calls it a 250. It will process 240gal. of 38 degree sap in an hour, taking it to 8% in one pass. Does that mean it's a 250 or is it a really good performing 160? I have quite a few questions about this machine so I was hoping some of the more expierienced sugarmakers (Jerry you out there?) could offer some info.

Originally it had three membranes. Before I cleaned her up and painted it, you could see that a third vessel was on there and it was numbered on the back 1,2 and 3. Any idea on why it would have been removed? Performance issues? Could a third vessel be put back on, as is, or would I need to get a larger high pressure pump? It has a 3hp pump now. Would upgrading to a 5hp pump and not adding a vessel still up the capacity? Did Airablo have one chassis back then and installed different components making different capacity machines? Same flowmeters and gauges, just different pumps and membranes?

Would anyone have any literature on this antique? On an electrical schematic there is "Le Hobby Seperateur" so I'm guessing this was the smallest RO they made back then? I'm sure I'll have more questions about it, but for now can anyone tell me anything about this Airablo unit?

Thanks,
Steve

[Bucket Head]

Yes, computers are great, are'nt they? No idea why I can not get them all to post. Here's one...

[Bucket Head]

Lets try it again...

[802maple]

First I would keep it a 2 piece machine. Second that HP should run 3 four inch membranes, all that would happen is you would decrease pressure and you would gain some performance. Adding a 5 horse pump wouldn't gain you all that much, as I think you would gain more with just adding the extra 4 inch membrane as it would be just pumping more pressure to the membrane. Adding a 5hp to the three membranes would gain you more though, but then you would be getting close to what it would cost you to add a 8 inch to the machine as it is. My advice just add an additional 4 inch and go with it. If you want it to be bigger then that, you should bite the bullet and buy bigger.

It should be a 250 machine as assembled or thereabouts but most likely not that high with 38 degree sap. It should make you a good machine.

[danno]

Nice looking rig, Steve.

I have a 3 hp pump on a 4 vessel 4" machine and have had the pressure up to 450. Never went higher as never had need to. I just changed membranes this year and am only using two of the vessels. May put the 3rd or 4th back on line next year.

[Brent]

My Airablo 150 is about 6 years old now and looks very different. The hi pressure pump on yours looks to have about 12" more overall height, which I think will give you more pressure than I can get. Mine tops at 300 psi. How much pressure can you get. I'm guessing more than I can.

As a guess, a bigger pump might give you more recirculation and less crud build up on the membranes, better rinses and longer times between washes. Would it be worth the expense ? I don't know. With what you are showing in your signature for number of taps, I don't think you need any mods .... but if you get more trees ....

[Bucket Head]

Jerry,

I appreciate the info, thank you. The 38 degree thing might not be accurate. Since that run I'm questioning the thermometer. I will check the next run of sap for temp. and compare with the machine's therm. I'm happy with its performance now, but were always thinking "more" with this maple thing, lol. I would'nt mind trying a third vessel, but due to its age, would I have trouble finding one? Do they still make this style vessel? Any ideas on a used one? The 5hp idea is interesting too. Is it just a matter of swapping the motors and leaving the pump portion alone, or is it a complete swap to another motor/pump? If thats the case I would have to get a pump that had the same location for the pressure manifold to hook up to. That might be a problem, I don't know. But like I said, I'm happy with it the way it is. The upgrade information is just food for thought right now. However, if you see a vessel like mine somewhere let me know.

Danno,

Thanks. A lot of time and effort went into making it look like that. A lot of new stuff there, including a braided stainless pressure line from Mitten Fluid Power. A lot of time and effort also went into getting her down to the RO room- known to everyone else as the basement, lol.

How is your machine performing now as compared to the original four vessels? You surprised me with four! What membranes were in it and what are you using now? I know you posted that somewhere but I forget. I have two 270-4040's, I think. The previous owner reccomended replacing them. He figured they were old membranes. Regardless of this machines age and membrane condition, its been a great investment.

Steve

[Bucket Head]

Brent,

I hope to add taps next year, I just don't know how many at this point. Even "as is" the machine will allow for some expansion. I'm not talking hundreds of taps, maybe a hundred or a little over- we'll see. Its still just my father and I running this show so we can't go overboard, lol.

Yes, the pressure is higher with this pump. It ran at about 440psi going to 6% and 475psi going to 8-9%. I can only assume that those are correct operating pressures. I have almost no literature on it. The single sheet of paper I got with it that has the basic operating instructions says not to exceed 550psi. However, there is no "red line" on the high pressure gauge. And I still can't find the oil pressure gauge and tachometer, lol.

Seriously, I have a lot to learn about these things, but I'm gaining.

Steve

[802maple]

Steve, I am sure Airblo makes a comparable pressure vessel, but others could be retrofitted.

Getting a 5 horse pump is more than just changing the motor. The pump is also larger in those multistage pumps, different electrical relays, etc. for larger amp rates. Just changing to a 5 horse will gain you very little without adding additional membranes. I have taken 4 inch membranes off from other brands with a 3 horse pump and put on an 8 inch and received nearly as much production as a typical single 8 inch 600 would produce, but that also means changing out electrical when there is a true recirculation pump on the unit.

[danno]

I think any 4" vessel would work for you - you just need the right hose connections, Mitten should be able to help you with hoses and connections. I love that place.

Old compared to new - no comparison. My 4 old membranes were original 20 year old Osmoincs. They passed alot of sugar and were pretty plugged. Now using 2 new XLE 4040's. The XLE's pass no sugar that I can detect and I can take 2% to 8% at about .6 gal conc/min. and bring it up to 10-11 if I pinch. I too am curious what 4 membranes would do.

[wiam]

Joe from Atlantic has new 4 inch stainless vessels for $125..I think he said rated to 300 psi

William

[Bucket Head]

Jerry- I was just curious as to the 5hp retrofit. I was'nt leaning towards that. If I do any modification it would be putting it back to the way it was, providing I could find the right pressure vessel. However, the 4" to 8" conversion with the near 600gal. performance is interesting! Speaking of recirculation pumps, I guess this machine does not have that capability since I only have the feed and pressure pumps. Hopefully that won't affect its performance too much. I'm assuming I will have membrane fouling issues at some point without that pump? Or should I say issues arrising quicker than those with that pump?

Danno- I think I should try and find the type vessel that this unit had. I'm sure Mitten could do something for me, but I would have to get "creative" getting another type vessel on her. The originals are mated to each other with a rigid, clamp-like fixture that connect welded fittings on the sides of each vessel. The clamps themselves say "Victaulic 77" and have 1" cast on the halves of the clamp. I don't know how standard or unstandard this style fitting is, but I would like to keep them the same if possible. And that way the vessel would bolt right up with all the existing mounts/hardware.

Wiam- I am familiar with the vessels that Atlantic RO sells. Prior to me buying this Airablo, I researched the parts needed to build a small RO. Those vessels do not have the same psi rating as my machine. This unit runs around 450-475psi.

To everyone- If you should see a vessel like the ones on my machine for sale, please let me know. There must be one somewhere. Like I said its a twenty year old machine so I'm thinking newer machines would'nt have the same style vessel. Maybe I'm wrong? They have a heavy stainless steel end/plug/cap that is retained with two pins that slide in four holes at the ends of the vessel. If anyone needs a better photo of this set-up, let me know.

Thanks guy's,
Steve

[802maple]

Steve, I have only done that expansion with a Lapierre and a CDL, but both of them were around 500 to 550. Your machine could have an exterior recirc pump for a 8 inch but they are not as effective as the internal pumps that are on the lapierre and CDL units.

[Brent]

If you want to really confuse yourself go to Leader's web site on the information pages and download the user's manual for the Springtech RO machines. (made by Airablo and private branded for Leader) The manual is nearly identical to the Airablo, page for page, picture for picture.

Anyway on page 22 there is a big chart of models showing membranes, Hp etc.

[Bucket Head]

Brent- The Leader catolog info is what got me confused to start with, lol! Thats why I have all the questions about the elec. motors and their ratings. According to their specs., in the catalog I have in hand, I have the same equipment as the Elite 160. But mine does a lot more than that. The next machine up is the 250, with a 5hp motor. Then it goes up to a 7.5hp motored unit at 600gph. The numbers did not make sense, and many folks on here state they have a 300, 400-ish, 500, etc. The catalog has no machines between 250 and 600 and I wondered why. I'm guessing many manufacturers had more models in past years and now they have all trimmed their product line. Offering fewer sizes so your forced to get a bigger machine, with a bigger price tag, when you did'nt want or need the larger RO but the next one down was "too small".

The numbers Jerry shared about the multiple membranes or just a single 8" with the same high pressure pump is very interesting. Its even more interesting when you look at that catalog page and compare outputs. But like I said, I like what my machine has done for me so far this season, as is. Finding an original style vessel and putting it back to its original configuration would be great, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

Steve

[Bucket Head]

I forgot to ask everyone's opinion on the XLE-4040 membranes. Is everybody happy with them? Is it a good, or better replacement membrane for the 270-4040 ones that I have? I know there are numbers for flow rates and high concentration abilities. Which of these two are better suited for upping flow rates and/or concentration? Are there any other 4 inchers out there that are reccomended? I'm going to use what I have for this season. This info will be food for thought for next season.

Thanks,
Steve