Tell me I'm not crazy

[mathprofdk]

This was my first year, and I only had 8 taps in, but was collecting about 40 gallons a week. I was only able to boil on the weekend, and the 1.5 gph using my turkey fryer and a huge stock pot meant I spent the whole weekend to get a gallon of syrup. Mind you, it's great-tasting stuff, but it's also expensive - probably $50/gallon just in fuel costs! :o I'm just making gifts for people, but still...

Anyway, I'm hoping to expand next year. I've spent countless hours researching here, and it looks like a cinder block arch is the thing for me. I know I could keep it really simple and just use the cinder blocks for the whole thing - stack included - but what's the fun in that? And I want to think about it now, because summer is the only time I'll be able to work on a project like this.

I do have some resources - one good friend is a welder by trade, and another is a glass and metal artist, with access to fire bricks, ceramic insulation, etc. Both have expressed an interest in helping. Also, my neighbor owns an HVAC company, so I have access to new and used ductwork, if needed.

So here's my rough plan (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16709440/myarch.pdf) (sorry for the crappy penmanship). I'll be buying a 55-gallon plastic drum for sap storage (a local seller has one on Craigslist and can certify it with just having maple favoring in it previously), and using two ideas from here - a hole cut in the top with a 2-gallon bucket inserted to pour sap in, and then a valve with copper coiled around the stack to warm the sap. I plan on using fire brick to line the cinder block, and then I get to where I have lots of questions. I'll just enumerate them. I'm amazed that you've even stayed with me this far. My god this is a long post.

1. Space is limited in my back yard - how far should this be from my garage with vinyl siding?
2. I have some left-over crushed limestone - can I use that for the ramp? Would you put cinder blocks underneath to build it up somewhat?
3. Is my stack idea OK? Can I just turn a cinder block on its side at the end of the ramp and attach a tapered 90 degree duct over both openings, then some 6" or 8" pipe up? How tall should the stack be?
4. Is two courses of block enough? I saw an idea for a grate here somewhere, too, and it doesn't leave a ton of space under the pan for the fire. Maybe something like 10".
5. I see steam pans on eBay that are different depths - how deep should I get mine?
6. How focused should I be on making a tight seal between the pans and the blocks? Can I use some fire rope attached to the blocks somehow? Or ask my welder friend to make a frame that sits on the blocks? What about in the back - what do I fill gaps with?
7. Do I need a fancy front door? Can I just use a scrap piece of sheet metal, tilted open when necessary?
8. If I do my warming idea, how do I get warm sap to all three pans? Can I split that copper tube? Do I need some device to transfer the sap from pan to pan?

Feel free to slap me and just say I'm making this way too complicated. I had a great time this year, and I'm really looking forward to expanding next year. If I do that, I'll need to drastically improve my evaporation rate, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.

Thanks!
~DK

[ckkrotz]

We are using a block evaporator this year... but this is our first year so I'll just tell you some of what we experienced...
1.here we have a law about how close a fire can be to a structure... I think it's 50 feet... but don't know other than that.
2. We didn't really have a ramp this year...can't comment
3. We just left a gap between some blocks and put a chimney elbow in it... can't say... can't say how your idea will work.
4. We have 3 courses of blocks, and that works ok, but our pans are hanging down into it so that takes up space... We thought about doing 2 courses of whole blocks, and then a course of 1/2 blocks on top so we don't have quite so much fire underneath to tend.
5. Our steam pans are the 6 inch ones, and they work well... they do scorch when the syrup levels get down below where the flames hit (with your fire bricks this shouldn't be as much of a problem). We have 2 pans, and are thinking next year we might get a 4 inch pan for the sap that's closer to being done.
6. Our pans are just resting in the bricks, and very little smoke/heat comes through.
7. Our front door is a piece of an oil barrel hammered out till it's almost flat, and it works.
8. I believe most people with steam pans just have the hot sap from the coil go into the back pan, and ladle it forward as it evaporates... we haven't gotten to the coil yet.

[Haynes Forest Products]

mathprofdk Yea it sounds crazy but why would you let that stop you. Unless YOU TRY IT you wont learn and become a full blown maniac. I still keep trying crazy **** and enjoy every moment. When I get back to the sugar making I'm going to drill a small hole in my Hydrometer cup.............JIM said to do it.

[BobU]

Hey mathprofdk, I was just wondering why you went with the "block" design and not a "barrel style" arch. (55 gal. or fuel oil)
Have a friend who is going to start up next year, and I was suggesting the barrel style. (but what do I know)
Whatever you do it will be WAY better than the turkey fryer.
Have fun, Tap lots! BobU

[Kev]

unless you want to use wood. I would consider burners from an old furnace and run a gas line from the house (just a thought considering the price of firewood here)
if you go wood I would start scrounging pallets now... if you have somewhere you can store them without bringing the wrath of the neighbors and town down on you.
I have scrounged up a natural gas burner from a boiler for home heat.(just in case for next year. if I can not work out getting the vegie oil to burn as clean as I need. I AM STILL trying to get the gunk off the bottom of my syrup pan!)
I see it even has a deflector to kick the heat from the burner "up" to the boiler tank... and its variable BTU's from 80,000 to 300,000 per hour.
just thoughts for you to work off of.

I have been wondering why those with steam pans have not plumbed them together and instead dip sap foward?

[happy thoughts]

I AM STILL trying to get the gunk off the bottom of my syrup pan!)


I'm assuming your pans are SS. If so, then two good and also cheap degreasers are ammonia and pine oil. I'm not suggesting you mix the two but have you tried either? If using ammonia don't mix it with any other cleaner especially those that may contain bleach.

If using a pine based cleaner look for the pine oil concentration on the label. You want one with a high concentration of at least 15-20% pine oil. Try applying a little of it straight with one of those soft plastic pot scrubbers.

A more expensive product that works pretty well is Greased Lightening. Sprayed on an given a few minutes hang time it does a good job grease cutting.

[mathprofdk]

Great stuff, everybody!

@ckkrotz: Very helpful tips. I think I won't worry about a super-efficient system this year, and just lay the pans on the blocks and set up the easiest system possible for the stack.

@BobU: I like the block design because I can do some of it. With a barrel, my welder friend would pretty much have to make the whole thing for me. I like making stuff, and this design is pretty accessible. Also, it's easier to just expand out if I go really crazy in the future!

@Kev: Interesting thought. It'd be a really long run from the house, though (detached garage 20' from the house, so it'd be 50' of gas line to run). I think I'll try for wood this next year. I have a friend with some property who might let me scrounge for dead wood. I also like the pallet idea. I think if I'm careful with it and cut them to good sizes, I can store in my back yard near where I'll need them. I know what you mean about costs, though - I spent $45 on a face cord last year from a place in town. No cheaper than propane! Since I'm on the far west side, I think if I look further west toward DeKalb I might have better luck.

Thanks for the tips. Keep 'em coming!

~DK

[MilesTeg]

We tried the copper coil preheater idea with our hobby evaporator 2 years ago. They take alot of tinkering to get right and with such a poor year we couldn't it dialed in. I'm just saying be prepared to mess with it alot until you find the sweet spot. If you are going to wrap it around a stack do it in an area that is easily accessible and have as many hands around as possible to help out. Go slow and watch for it to start kinking and be careful. I've never been around a cinder block arch but if I had the choice I would def go with a barrel style and if you set that up right you could get a decent amour of syrup off of one cord of wood. On our hobby evaporator we would get roughly 5 gal of syrup from one cord. Well good luck and welcome to the madness.

[kiegscustoms]

when we started we used 3/8 copper tubing around the stack. I would reccomend going to 5/8 min. for the preheater since we had ours get steam locked and make dark balls of syrup candy nuggets in the tube that would shoot out when sap was needed and make the entire batch taste burnt and look darker than it should. If you can dial it in so you have the sap valve feeding in constantly you will have better luck. Just my 2 cents

[Tweegs]

From my block arch experience:

1. Get some of the pan gasket material from one of the sugar supply houses and put a strip down along the cinder block for your pans to rest on. This will help keep the wood smoke that tends to rise up around the edges of the pans from getting in your eyes while you’re standing over them.

2. I went 3 courses of block high, The bottom course in the firebox region was turned on its side so that the holes in the block provided good airflow into the firebox area.

3. I tried to weld up some bed frame angle iron to make a frame for my pan to sit on. Bad idea…There was enough heat to cause that angle iron to warp, throwing my pan out of level. (I had a 2X6 divided flat pan).

4. Firebrick is a good idea, it will help keep the cinderblock from crumbling after a season’s use.

5. I used sheet metal for the front of the arch, one of those doors from a barrel kit worked well. The sheet metal will get insanely hot and is difficult to use without a door. Those barrel kit doors are pretty cheap.

6. I tried to attach the sheet metal to the cinder block using lead anchors…another bad idea. Lead melts at a temperature somewhat below what the firebox will generate. The sheet metal fell off, flames shot up the side of my pan and melted the solder joints on the pan. 2 or 3 days recovery time from that fiasco, c-clamps got me through the rest of the season.

7. My arch was about 2X6…a 6 inch stack was not big enough. Every time I opened the door…well, let’s just say I took up wearing a hat and gave up on having eyebrows or a mustache for the season.

[mathprofdk]

@MilesTeg: Why the barrel evaporator? Based on my skill set, the block arch seems much more accessible, but I'm open to suggestions. I do like that the barrel is mobile and could be moved into the middle of the yard for the season and then packed against the garage under wraps for the rest of the year. It just seems like a lot more involved and way out of my skill set. I'd be much more dependent on the help of my friends.

@kiegscustoms: If you could do it over, what would you do for preheating? It sounds like the copper might be impractical.

@Tweegs: Great stuff. How would you recommend attaching the sheet metal at the front, then?

Thanks again, everybody. This is great!

~DK

[smokeyamber]

I did the cinder block setup first year, then went barrel setup. Barrel is nice cause you can dismantle easily and setup time is minimal. One issue that I had with blocks that others have not mentioned was that the ground under the arch thawed causing the blocks to tilt during the boil. Almost lost the pans !:o Tying the blocks together would help I think, but that was one factor that made me move to the barrel. Of course moving the barrel inside was a MAJOR improvement this year, can't really do that as easily with the block setup.

If you have resource to build a true arch, even a barrel one, I would do it cause you will be hooked after this year ! :D

[MilesTeg]

Well on top of "looking" like a more professional set up which is nice if friends and family are stopping in to help/ watch, it allows for a steady growth. You could start next year with the arch made and put some stainless steal kitchen pans on it. Then next year if your welding friend is skilled enough to weld stainless you could have a flat pan made up. Then next year you could add dividers to the pan making a continuous system. Then add the preheater with a float valve and a set of draw off valves. Lastly a blower under the fire to really up the boil rate. With all of those upgrades it would cut down on your boil time and quality of syrup. And with the ease of use hopefully make the boiling process more enjoyable.

[mathprofdk]

Thanks, MilesTeg. Those are really good points.

I actually just talked to my welder friend (he's actually a welding instructor at a community college, so is definitely capable), and he's making my head spin. He wants to use burners from an old stove and hook it up to natural gas as Kev suggested.

Would you still go with the barrel in that case? Or just use a design on here somewhere that we build from scratch? Are there better burners? Do you still insulate it like you would for any other system?

Gah... head... spinning... so many questions...

[Tweegs]

[QUOTE=mathprofdk;145614@Tweegs: Great stuff. How would you recommend attaching the sheet metal at the front, then?

Thanks again, everybody. This is great!

~DK[/QUOTE]

I used c-clamps, but only because I was in a pinch. To do it over again, I would use a masonry bit, drill a hole through the block and use a long ¼ inch bolt with a big fat washer on both the sheet metal and block sides. Stuff some of that gasket material between the block and the sheet metal, too, you’re bound to have extra.

Forgot to mention earlier, I would be tempted to fill the blocks with sand, at least the top course, again to keep the smoke down. If you were going to make it a permanent fixture, I’d even consider putting a skim coat of concrete over the sand. I had a bear of a time with smoke, took much of the fun out of it.

Also, keep the prevailing winds in mind when you go to build it, you don’t want the wind blowing ashes from your stack back into the pans.