Fill lines for jars and bottles?

[buck3m]

This is always something I think about. I want to give the customer full measure, but I don't want to give away syrup, either.

I've read here on Mapletrader that the fill line on the plastic maple syrup jugs is the bottom of the neck.

Do you look down the neck with a headlamp or some other bright light as you fill?

I was considering setting each container on the scale and going by weight. Most sources say 1 gallon of pure maple syrup weighs 11 pounds.

Does anyone use a scale to measure the syrup added to the container?

What do you use for a fill line for hot syrup in Mason jars?

What is the fill line for "fancy bottles" like maple leaves and the like?

[happy thoughts]

I don't sell my syrup but when filling jars and bottles, I try to leave as little head space as possible so there will be minimal air in the container on sealing. Less air means less chance of mold growth. There is always a little loss in volume after filling once the syrup cools, at least in my own experience in the short 5 years I've been producing small amounts for home use. I prefer more traditional narrow necked bottles but if using mason jars, I fill up to about the last 1/4 inch. But that's just my way of doing it. Others may have a different approach.

[michiganfarmer2]

I've read here on Mapletrader that the fill line on the plastic maple syrup jugs is the bottom of the neck.

Do you look down the neck with a headlamp or some other bright light as you fill?


this is exactly what I do. I use a flashlight.

As it is I think its more than a quart. Ive used a liquid measuring cup for baking, and put 4 cups in a syrup jug that is suppose to hold a quart, and it doesnt even come up to the neck.

The quart mason jars I fill to the neck....about 3/4 of an inch below the top.

[wiam]

I have filled by weight, but too lazy to do it all the time. Most jugs seem to be close but some are off.

William

[Big_Eddy]

Syrup will shrink a bit when it cools. Take a glass bottle, fill it and seal it and mark a line on it, then check it again when it is cool.

So if you are filling to a line, make sure you overfill some to account for cooling.

[Toblerone]

I was just thinking about this myself, so I checked at the store and most of those seemed to have been filled to somewhere between to top and bottom of where the little jug handle attaches on the side of those oval or "flat" syrup bottles. I guess weight would probably be the best measure. I've seen measuring cups that are off by more than an ounce.

And I agree about syrup contracting when cooled. It can make what seemed to be a full bottle look a little light. Also be careful of air getting stuck in the leaves of those maple-leaf bottles, so overfill a little for that too.

[happy thoughts]

Syrup will shrink a bit when it cools. Take a glass bottle, fill it and seal it and mark a line on it, then check it again when it is cool.

So if you are filling to a line, make sure you overfill some to account for cooling.

Absolutely. I always see a volume loss on cooling. It can be an inch or more in a narrow necked bottle filled almost to the top. The hotter the syrup is packed the more volume loss I see.

If anyone uses a measuring cup to check the volume of a container, make sure you're using a measuring cup meant for fluids, not flour or other dry ingredients. There can be a big difference in volume between the 2.

A standard glass pyrex measuring cup should be good enough and even those aren't 100% accurate. Make sure it's on a level surface and read the volume at the bottom of the meniscus- the curve at the top of the water surface.

It also helps to do it backwards- fill the container to where you're going to fill it and then dump that into the pyrex cup to measure the liquid volume. Just remember about volume loss when hot syrup cools. I would try to overfill a bit.

[buck3m]

Just to give an example of how misleading measurements can be. I once tried measuring two cups of syrup into an 8 oz bottle, and found out I ended up with a bit less than 8 oz. in said bottle. The reason being that syrup clung to the measuring cup each time.

It would be nice to have some sort of industry standard as most of us seem to be winging it a bit. We all should be canning around 190 or so. It would be nice if we could say "fill to the top of the handle" or something, knowing that that represents a quart or a pint or whatever it may be, regardless of subsequent shrinkage.

[happy thoughts]

Just to give an example of how misleading measurements can be. I once tried measuring two cups of syrup into an 8 oz bottle, and found out I ended up with a bit less than 8 oz. in said bottle. The reason being that syrup clung to the measuring cup each time.


There is probably more than a little variation between bottles. It's not like they are being made to an accurate measure or that each bottle even in the same lot is the same.


It would be nice if we could say "fill to the top of the handle" or something, knowing that that represents a quart or a pint or whatever it may be, regardless of subsequent shrinkage.

What volume do you think a consumer is interested in? The hot volume on packing or the one they might measure at home with syrup at room temp?

If I were a commercial producer I think I would tend to overfill if only to give my customers a fair measure. If you're selling, you might want to see what your state regs say (if anything) and how they check a product for labeled volume or weight.

[buck3m]

I think the customer who pays for a quart of syrup is interested in getting a quart. Like most of us they would probably appreciate getting as much for free as possible. As a producer I am interested in giving them a quart. But as has been pointed out, if I fill a quart plastic jug to the top "for good measure" I am giving away about a cup of syrup EACH. http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=7444

1/16 of a gallon is worth $3 at $48 a gallon. If I am lucky and make 100 gallons of syrup this year, that's 400 quarts, and giving away $3 each that would be $1,200. So it's not a minor issue.

I am going to try to err on the side of overfilling, but by as little as possible. At the very least I want to know the true volume of each container I am filling. I plan to go back to using a fluid oz measuring cup and water to measure the volume of each container, then upping it to allow for shrinkage. I'm going to keep sample containers with my own fill line to use for reference.

Personally, I like exact standards to measure from. All things being equal, it would be great if containers were made to be filled to the top or to an obvious line so both customer and producer knew exactly how much it held. It seems like most of us are winging it.

[happy thoughts]

I think you need to strike a balance. No need to fill to the top if your container holds more volume than labeled, but to my own mind at least, you need to be sure the consumer is getting the volume labeled which could vary considerably from hot pack to room temps.

Again, I'd suggest looking into your state regs and how they regulate liquids and labeling. Are liquids to be sold by volume or weight? The weights and measures departments probably have something to say.

That said, I'd assume there's some tolerance, probably a statistcal standard of deviation of some kind. Assuming that every bottle was filled to the same volume or weight would be tremendously costly for the producer, but the consumer needs to be reasonably sure that the quantity is as advertised.

But that's just my 2 cents from the consumer end. If you're really concerned, check your state regs

[buck3m]

"One gallon of maple syrup at 67º Brix weighs about 11.2 pounds...Weight measures are more accurate and repeatable than volume measures." (Cornell)

http://www.nnyagdev.org/maplefactsheets/CMB%20205%20Replacing%20Table%20Sugar%20with%20Map le%20Sugar-1.pdf

"Maple syrup; legal weight and measure" means the legal weight of a gallon of maple syrup shall not be less than 11.07 pounds and the legal measure thereof shall be 231 cubic inches (128 fluid ounces) at 68 degrees F. Whenever maple syrup is sold by the gallon, quart, pint, or gill, or multiple fraction thereof, it must be sold according to that legal weight and measure." (Vermont)

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullchapter.cfm?Title=09&Chapter=073

Maple syrup Gallon net weight (pounds) 11.02 (USDA) http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ah697/ah697.pdf

Using the high figure of 11.2 pounds (11 pounds and 3.2 oz, or 179.2 oz) a full gallon (128 FLUID oz) should weigh 11 pounds 3.2 oz plus the weight of the container.

A half gallon should weigh 89.6 oz, or 5 lbs 9.6 oz., plus container.
A quart should weigh 44.8 oz., or 2 lbs, 12.8 oz, plus container.
A pint should weigh 1 lb, 6.4 oz, plus container
A 12 fluid oz bottle should weigh 16.8 oz, plus container
An 8 oz (1 cup) bottle should weigh 11.2 oz plus container
A 4 oz container should weigh 5.6 oz plus container

If the last three sizes seem contradictory, it's because a fluid oz is a measure of volume, and the quoted weights are in pounds and ounces.

[happy thoughts]

"One gallon of maple syrup at 67º Brix weighs about 11.2 pounds...Weight measures are more accurate and repeatable than volume measures." (Cornell)

http://www.nnyagdev.org/maplefactsheets/CMB%20205%20Replacing%20Table%20Sugar%20with%20Map le%20Sugar-1.pdf

"Maple syrup; legal weight and measure" means the legal weight of a gallon of maple syrup shall not be less than 11.07 pounds and the legal measure thereof shall be 231 cubic inches (128 fluid ounces) at 68 degrees F. Whenever maple syrup is sold by the gallon, quart, pint, or gill, or multiple fraction thereof, it must be sold according to that legal weight and measure." (Vermont)

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullchapter.cfm?Title=09&Chapter=073

Maple syrup Gallon net weight (pounds) 11.02 (USDA) http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ah697/ah697.pdf

Using the high figure of 11.2 pounds (11 pounds and 3.2 oz, or 179.2 oz) a full gallon (128 FLUID oz) should weigh 11 pounds 3.2 oz plus the weight of the container.

A half gallon should weigh 89.6 oz, or 5 lbs 9.6 oz., plus container.
A quart should weigh 44.8 oz., or 2 lbs, 12.8 oz, plus container.
A pint should weigh 1 lb, 6.4 oz, plus container
A 12 fluid oz bottle should weigh 16.8 oz, plus container
An 8 oz (1 cup) bottle should weigh 11.2 oz plus container
A 4 oz container should weigh 5.6 oz plus container

If the last three sizes seem contradictory, it's because a fluid oz is a measure of volume, and the quoted weights are in pounds and ounces.

There you go guys. This info is pretty solid and precise. It should be easy to use as your guidelines.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I use an LED headlamp when bottling syrup and it is awesome. You can see right down into the jug 2 or 3 inches and this prevents any overflow. I bottle syrup around 185 and bottle only in plastic and I think the jugs swell out a little as they are filling with hot syrup, thus the recommendation to fill to the bottom of the next so there is room for jug contraction.

[seclark]

A question for the pro's.When you fill your jugs do you rinse them with hot water first and leave them warm or do you fill them right out of the new carton they came in.I'm a hobby back yarder and give to family and friends.I have been using glass bottles but bought jugs this time.I always rinsed the glass one's but is that nessessary or not.Thanks for any info. Stan

[BryanEx]

When you fill your jugs do you rinse them with hot water first and leave them warm or do you fill them right out of the new carton they came in.
This is a good question. I just started using the plastic jugs and found they had a little bit of "plastic sawdust" mixed in. I'm very concerned about impurities being added into my filtered syrup and wondered what sort of prep I should do with plastic jugs.

- Bryan

[jmayerl]

OK- just checked my glass qts(AGC) and plastic qts (cruchons) and both hold 2 fluid ounces more than they should. My guesstimates of where to fill have been right on even though one customer said they thought it was a little low. I just explained that when filled hot it cools and contracts(which is true). As for cleaning, ever since I found a bunch of dead flies in my new sealed box of cruchons I have put them upside down in the dishwasher and set it to sterilize. The cycle on our brand new dishwasher takes about 60 minutes. That might be a little overkill but thats the story of my life. I say do it right(or over right) or don't do it at all.

[happy thoughts]

OK- just checked my glass qts(AGC) and plastic qts (cruchons) and both hold 2 fluid ounces more than they should. My guesstimates of where to fill have been right on even though one customer said they thought it was a little low. I just explained that when filled hot it cools and contracts(which is true).

Your customer may be right if the syrup is below the mark you measured when cool. Yes, syrup contracts on cooling, but from the info buck3m provided, volume is measured on syrup at room temp not the volume when hot packed.

.....the legal measure thereof shall be 231 cubic inches (128 fluid ounces) at 68 degrees F.....

Anyway, hope you're having some great runs with sales to match:)

[Groves]

We all need to keep in mind that customers don't use scales, they use their eyes.

It doesn't matter if they're getting more than they paid for. Right or wrong, they'll always feel a bit slighted if it's not full. It's just human nature.

You can break out your scales and your measuring cups, but in the end, they just have a better feeling about a full container.

I would just factor that in when buying containers or setting prices. Then you can fill to the top without guilt, and everyone's happy.

[happy thoughts]

We all need to keep in mind that customers don't use scales, they use their eyes.

It doesn't matter if they're getting more than they paid for. Right or wrong, they'll always feel a bit slighted if it's not full. It's just human nature.

You can break out your scales and your measuring cups, but in the end, they just have a better feeling about a full container.

I would just factor that in when buying containers or setting prices. Then you can fill to the top without guilt, and everyone's happy.

I agree. The consumer is the final judge and satisfied customers mean customers that come back.

That said, I have to wonder if most bottles are produced for a metric market, meant to hold ml not oz. I'm thinking of the mammoth Canadian industry where I believe syrup is sold in ml... and laws are fairly rigid in the exact sizes that can be sold if I remember correctly.

Generally 500 ml is considered the equivalent of 16 oz but is really about an ounce more than that. Then assuming the bottle maker is allowing for volume decrease on cooling so on room temp the bottle holds the full measure, I can see why some find their containers hold a lot more than they think they should. I don't know for sure but I suspect there are no bottles specifically made for the US market and it's non metric system of weights and measures. Just a thought.....

[CBOYER]

Most Syrup sold in Qc is in 540ml tin can, so customer cannot see level :D

[BryanEx]

That said, I have to wonder if most bottles are produced for a metric market, meant to hold ml not oz. I'm thinking of the mammoth Canadian industry where I believe syrup is sold in ml... and laws are fairly rigid in the exact sizes that can be sold if I remember correctly.
Yesterday I took a measuring cup and filled a plastic 1 litre bottle with exactly 1 litre and compared that to filling "to the bottom of the neck". Bottom of the neck was 1.2 litres hot.

- Bryan

[happy thoughts]

Yesterday I took a measuring cup and filled a plastic 1 litre bottle with exactly 1 litre and compared that to filling "to the bottom of the neck". Bottom of the neck was 1.2 litres hot.

- Bryan

LOL, Bryan. You shot that theory to heck:D

I've been pretty impressed with the Canadian maple syrup standards I've read. They're much more definitive than US FDA regs where salt and even preservatives are allowed as an additive. Sheesh, who puts salt in syrup and why on earth would we allow preservatives?

Now, maybe it's time you guys got after the the bottle makers to get some standards. Seriously, how can any producer bottle for the consumer when the darn bottle doesn't hold even close to what it says it does?

[jmayerl]

Your customer may be right if the syrup is below the mark you measured when cool. Yes, syrup contracts on cooling, but from the info buck3m provided, volume is measured on syrup at room temp not the volume when hot packed.

.....the legal measure thereof shall be 231 cubic inches (128 fluid ounces) at 68 degrees F.....

Anyway, hope you're having some great runs with sales to match:)

You aparently did not uderstand what I was saying. I fill the bottles to a predetermined level which ironically was the correct level when the syrup cooled. I guess I could have said that I was using room temperature (about 68F) tap water to measure with. So therefore I hope you understand that I am not shorting my customers, rather providing them with the correct volume of syrup they have paid for.

[happy thoughts]

You're right, jmayerl, I misunderstood. And after reading BryanEx's post it's pretty clear anything goes in the bottle industry.

That said, it seems to me that the best way to find the fill line for a bottle might be to take a known volume of room temp syrup using a measuring cup meant for liquids, heat to bottling temp and fill the bottle. Add a little more height to compensate for the syrup that sticks to the pan and that should be the hot packing fill line. I'd probably do this on a handful of bottles just to see if there's much variation between bottles. Or just go the weighing route on a good and accurate scale that can be tared.

Again, wishes for a great season:)