Craigslist Ad

[SapZilla]

I was astonished at some of the low prices I was finding on Craigslist for Syrup. All around the region I was finding syrup for sale for as low a $6.00 per qt!!!! I was satisfied when I found this Ad. A true ally in the Syrup industry!!!

http://appleton.craigslist.org/grd/2280177000.html

[jmayerl]

Wow, I havn't seen that ad till now. Jim is a great guy. I'm glad he did that. I'm sure some idiot will flag it, but heck I'll copy it and put it up new every day. I thought I was a little on the cheap side at 14/qt and 45/gal, but I see people around here on craigslist for 7/qt all the time. heck I gave my mother in law a pt for the other day and she said thats nice but when it comes to buying it she will get it from a guy up the road for 8/qt. REALLY, I still think I'm losing money at 14/qt! O well I am sold out of what I have now and need a run really bad.

[Farmboy]

The ad was flagged. What did it say?

[Bucket Head]

I'm wondering what it said also since I missed it. I've seen some unbelievable prices too. You have to wonder about some folks...

Steve

[spud]

The ad was flagged. What did it say?

I was able to read the ad that was on craiglist before it was flagged. I must say that i was not impressed with the ad at all. The writer of the add (Jim) starts off by showing his concern for syrup that is being posted for sale at a very low price. Jim then goes on to explain that buyer's should be aware of such a product (syrup) at such a low cost. Jim then decides to use the old fear tactics by claiming that this syrup may not be good to consume. Jim may be right on this point but does he really know for sure? Maple producers have always been upset with the guy down the street selling for less. This is nothing new and will continue to be this way forever. Jim then goes on to explain in his ad that it takes a lot of work, time, money and quality equipment and a clean operation to make quality syrup. Jim is right in saying this but he has no idea as to what kind of set-up the other people have. Then Jim makes a very bold statement when he say's that (no producer selling for less the $40.00 a gallon could be making quality syrup) Does this mean that all the big producers selling their syrup at bulk prices make junk? I think what we have here is some producers that are used to selling for $15.00 a quart see the competition as a threat to their little money making operation. I fully understand their concern but they should never try to degrade someone else product because there mad at the price. With more and more people sugaring i can only see the price going down a bit. There are some people that are having a hard time putting food on their tables and need to sell their syrup for less. There are some sugarmakers that can make quality syrup for $15.00 a gallon and sell it for $20.00 but then their profit would not be as good. Dr.Tim mentioned in a post some time ago that the money is made in the woods. He went on to say that there are those that go out and buy all the new shinny equipment to dress up the sugarhouse to impress their friends (but don't need it). These are the people that need to sell their syrup for $15.00 a quart. The guy selling for $6.00 a quart might have 100 buckets in his backyard and he just enjoys making QUALITY syrup for fun. So i think that Jim should focus on selling his own syrup and stop posting lies and half truths about others. There are a lot of people making quality syrup and selling for all different prices. As long as their happy with their price nothing else should matter. :)

Spud

[bobbyjake]

First, I don't know Jim....

That said, his point is NOT AT ALL to use scare tactics or belittle the fella down the street that makes a quality product and chooses, for whatever reason, to sell it at a reduced price. His point is: BUYER BEWARE, BUYER BE EDUCATED - that all syrup is not made with the same equipment, practices, procedures, quality and care - and in all industries, those differences are often reflected in the price.

Having travelled extensively throughout sugarhouses in the "two upside down states", Maine, upstate NY, I have seen AND still see today....

dogs shake the mud and rain off themselves next to drawoff hoppers
socks used for filters
old oil cans used in various functions throughout the operation
sheetrock (actual sheetrock not just 5 gallon sheetrock looking pails) for gathering sap
plastic pails being used to draw hot syrup into
incredibly rusty buckets, tanks, drums, filter press plates
epoxy drums that when dry, you can shake them like a salt shaker
drums not being washed before re-filling
mouse droppings on top of the press, counter, canner lids (during the season)
equipment so filthy and moldy that you wonder if it could ever be made right again
lines so full of fuzz that it isn't clear how they could run at all

I am sure I can go on, but I think I have captured the point of Jim's post and that being that - Buyers of syrup need to be educated and know where and how their food products are being made. Its not all made the same and there are often real differences in the the quality, care and pride that goes into the product produced by different sugarmakers.

Personnally, $60/gallon isn't enough in my opinion.

[Gravel]

I posted syrup on craigslist last year for $18 a half gallon and was getting some serious e-mails from other sugar makers that were all pissed off!

[SapZilla]

First of all here is the post:

As a mid-size local maple syrup producer I am very concerned with some of the maple syrup for sale here on Craigslist. Production of quality Pure Maple Syrup requires extremely sanitary practices from the time the sap is extracted from the trees to the time it is syrup in a bottle. Pure Maple Syrup must be reduced to a very specific density and must go through extensive filtering processes, which requires a lot of time and intricate equipment. As a consumer you must beware of the many unlicensed individuals who simply don't have the facilities or the correct procedures who are selling for much less then the fair prices offered by actual producers. Pure Maple Syrup simply cannot be properly produced within margins allowed when selling for less then $40.00 per gallon, $10.00 per quart. Click on the link below for a list of producers of Premium Pure Maple Syrup.

Jim

http://www.wismaple.org/members/2011_members.htm

[lastwoodsman]

Sapzilla I agree 60.00 is not out of line. Bobbyjake makes some very good points. I would not do it for less than 50.00 a gallon. Time and equipment alone and you are not making that much. I went to the effort of getting a license, inscpections and equipment to produce a quality product. Just read this site and look at the photos of some of the non food grade equipment.
I am trying to build a small side income retirement business when that day comes. I would make sure anyone selling is following the correct guidelines.
Ashes in the syrup and boiling in a old pot is fine if you want to feed it to your family, I guess if you are going to do something do it right.
Like ol Mike Holmes of the DIY show says "Make it right"!
Woodsman

[SapZilla]

There you go spud. Now closely examine it and tell us exactly where you see lies. Now lets break down your post which I am quit sure took you most of last night to write.

Someone selling in bulk doesn't have $8.00-$15.00 per gallon in expenses due to bottles and labels in addition to the additional license and the time it takes to get it into bottles. There we go, one of you arguments destroyed.

His ad never says, "no producer selling for less the $40.00 a gallon could be making quality syrup". In a legitimate operation it is not possibly profitable. Do you even know what he is talking about when he mentioned "Margins"?

Spud, did you notice that nowhere in the ad did he even TRY to promote his own product???? There isn't even any contact info to reach him!! I'm still trying to find the lies or the half truths that you mentioned, none there.

How many times have you seen a bottle of garbage syrup that some one made but was really proud of it anyway because they made it themselves? I've had people give me a mason jar or syrup that resembled road-tar. I had to pour it on the ground to see that it was half full of sugar sand and other turbidity. Spud, can you tell me what good it does the industry when someone sells a bottle of syrup like that to a consumer who is having pure maple syrup for the first time? Whether it was sold for $6.00 per qt or $15.00 per qt, what good does it do any of us? Every person that tastes or even looks at that product could be turned away from pure maple forever. What good does it do us when that consumer turns back to corn syrup forever?

Spud, your saying that some people need to undercut the industry to put food on the table. The people undercutting typically have very small amounts of syrup to sell annually. What makes you think that selling out asap at low rates is the most profitable approach for even them?

Scare tactics? Come on!!!

Spud, maybe you just need to re-read it.


Thanks, Dick

[buck3m]

I'd like to get some $ return to at least pay as much expenses as I can. That said, I'm not doing this for profit, I'm doing it for fun.

It's extremely frustrating for many of us trying to get what we consider a fair price to be undercut by someone selling for half the price. But it is the right of people to sell their product for whatever they like, even if they are losing money or cost the rest of us profits.

I think the Craigslist post from Jim makes a lot of good points but it does insinuate some things that could be unfair to many small hobby producers.

For example "Pure Maple Syrup must be reduced to a very specific density and must go through extensive filtering processes, which requires a lot of time and intricate equipment."

Back when I was making 5 gallons a year I bought a hydrometer and the syrup was at that "very specific density." It does not require intricate equipment to filter maple syrup.

Can you make a fair profit when you sell maple syrup for $8 a quart? Not by our wage standard. But some people aren't in it for profit. I gave away about 4 gallons on Saturday to friends. That was my right. Most of the rest of it I hope to sell for as high of a price as the market will bear.

I think it's important to consider if we are getting upset because we are losing money to people because they are selling for less, or because they are making a substandard quality of maple syrup. Those two things are not necessarily synonymous, and to insinuate otherwise is unfair to small, honest, quality producers who charge less to move product, or to be nice, or because they feel like it.

[bowtie]

i realize that some of you are doing this for living or a side income and some of those prices seem to cheap but do you think twice when you change your oil or help your friends with their brakes, it is the same thing, you are taking work and wages from a guy who is doing that for a living. as for ashes in the pan and its all right for their family, i belive that is how this got started is it not. as i said in a different post i really do not think that dark syrup is inferior to light amber. also go to a pancake house a look at their syrup it is generally thin and weak, why because its cheaper to make it that way. some of these little producers may be making an inferior product but i bet most make as good as quality as the big boys. so before you get mad at them maybe you should think twice, who did you hire to fix your car or tractor or who sided your house, do not get me wrong i do everything i can on my own but then again i not complaining. elitist attitudes suck!!

[lastwoodsman]

What it boils down to in Minnesota is you can sell all the syrup you produce on your land anywhere you like for any price you like including Craigs list.

But it still has to be inspected by the state AG dept. to be legal if you sell a drop. No license is required if you sell less than 5000.00 dollars a year but it has to be inspected by the AG dept. The license allows you to sell through stores or have someone else sell it for you.

As far a quality, you can make quality on your kitchen stove even if you make a pint. As bobbyjake said in his post there are many ways to do it wrong whether you are large or small.
You can sell a quart for 1.00 if you like or give it all away as I have done for many years.
As in home canning do you do a good job in your food prep or are there grasshoppers in your greenbeans?
Woodsman

[SapZilla]

i realize that some of you are doing this for living or a side income and some of those prices seem to cheap but do you think twice when you change your oil or help your friends with their brakes, it is the same thing, you are taking work and wages from a guy who is doing that for a living. as for ashes in the pan and its all right for their family, i belive that is how this got started is it not. as i said in a different post i really do not think that dark syrup is inferior to light amber. also go to a pancake house a look at their syrup it is generally thin and weak, why because its cheaper to make it that way. some of these little producers may be making an inferior product but i bet most make as good as quality as the big boys. so before you get mad at them maybe you should think twice, who did you hire to fix your car or tractor or who sided your house, do not get me wrong i do everything i can on my own but then again i not complaining. elitist attitudes suck!!

Alright, lets fix this one... Where did you read the author say that he was mad? Where was he complaining? What part of "Buyer beware" don't you understand?

What pancake house were you at where the syrup was thin and weak? You might want to let the FDA know because thin syrup is not syrup and is illegal to sell or serve commercially.

Do you think there is a producer on this board that does not give some of their syrup away?

Light, amber, what difference does it make? Where did the author even mention grades???

Did the author ever say that every little producer is making "inferior product"?

"Elitist attitudes suck"? Are you reading the same ad that I am?

I know that some of this stuff is hard for you to understand. I don't blame the kid, I blame the schools:rolleyes:

[bowtie]

was not the author questioning cheap prices for syrup?? i was not refering to the author, never mentioned his post, i was merely stated what some where insinuating. i have noticed that there seems to be a general holier than thou attitude from some guys not everyone just a few. please do not question someones intelligence when you have no idea whom you are speaking to. also poeple who blame schools are generally bad parents. remember this is supposed to for fun not knocking down others!! i aploogize if if i offeneded anyone with my earlier post. we live in a fairly free country and its anybodies choice to sell things for what they like or wish,except for gas the gov't must make their share.

most of the syrup on the pancake house tables may be legal but it is not what they are selling in their packaged containers. you can bet on than that!!

[bowtie]

sapzilla
maybe you should reread the posts, i believe the author was "concerned" about the prices and the quality of small producers syrup.

[SapZilla]

sapzilla
maybe you should reread the posts, i believe the author was "concerned" about the prices and the quality of small producers syrup.

Right, thank you for correcting yourself, except I don't see "small producers" anywhere. You are getting closer.

Thanks, Dick

[bobbyjake]

Jim, Oh Jim. Is there a Jim out there that can actually translate what it was that you intended to say and mean? Apparently, your english is in question....

[Amber Gold]

I bet when he wrote his craigslist post he didn't think it'd get this much debate.

[spud]

I just hope that everyone is having a great season. Whatever you price your syrup at is fine with me. I used to sell my syrup for a little less and i was happy to do that. I was happy to give someone a deal and it put money into my pocket. There are those that need to make more per gallon because of cost involved. I wish them well also and hope they succed. Although the ones that need to make more should not try to make the others look bad ( and there are only a few that do this) by claiming their syrup is not as good. :)

Spud

[SapZilla]

Perfect!! So we are all on the same page then after all. Don't know why that had to be so difficult.

Thanks, Dick

[metalhead62]

there should be a national maple syrup ***. and let them set the price and u either belong or u dont my point being thatif u had a job at 12$ an hour and i come in and do ur job 4 8 r u happy about losing ur job the company /consumer is where does it end i have started doing maple 4 a little extra money and to get me out in the woods at a great time of year but is it worth doing it 4 free not to me

[TapME]

Hey Bobby, I'm from Maine? The best syrup comes from the Pine tree:)