Increase in maple producers?

[BryanEx]

I had nothing to do today so I stopped by my closest maple equipment supplier to see what I didn't know I needed. The store looked like it had been raped by the maple Gods with next to no inventory left. Chatting to the owner I learned they had sold 2500 buckets in the past two weeks alone which isn't bad at all for a small local feed store. Bucket sales I would figure are to small start-ups, hobbyists, & backyarders which makes me wonder... are more people getting into syrup production these days or is it just typical maple producer procrastination (present company excluded of course)? :rolleyes:

[Kev]

well...
While I have been a hobbiest for close to 20 years if you include the years of giving my dad a hand at it. I suspect that many that have just found this site are similar. yet just on here is pretty good hand full of completely new sugarers. my gut says there are a bunch of new people doing it in north america. a local farm store now sells maple supplys down here in central Il.
over priced and under supplied LOL 16 dollar plastic buckets and no hydrometers or thermometers for example. but that is a big change from: "you can do that here?" answer" yes, we have maple trees and it freezes and thaws, so yes we can"
I think any time the price of a well liked commodity hits highs that the average Joe feels is more than he/she can justify, you get an influx of newbies trying it for themselves.
maybe I should open a supply store here LOL

[BryanEx]

maybe I should open a supply store here
That's exactly what I had in the back of my mind from my original post... along with how it may affect marketing (pricing) in our local areas. I am already competing against other hobby producers that like to make 5 bucks for their efforts when I'm charging $12. I would be really curious to know what kind of margin big suppliers like Leader, CDL, and Dominion & Grimm offer their distributors.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The tap count is the US is going up every year and with the new technologies and more and more producers running high vacuum, check valves, and etc on top of increase in tap count. If we get some normal weather years, the prices are going to have to come down and may come down a lot as the reserves are starting to get big which is not normally a problem in the US at least in past decade or two.

[Kev]

That's exactly what I had in the back of my mind from my original post... along with how it may affect marketing (pricing) in our local areas. I am already competing against other hobby producers that like to make 5 bucks for their efforts when I'm charging $12. I would be really curious to know what kind of margin big suppliers like Leader, CDL, and Dominion & Grimm offer their distributors.

If you lay down your money to stock a store and I am sure they will be willing to give you a good discount....:D
Do you really want to or even can you keep your price down to what hobbiests in your area charge. I mean unless they are really big producing "hobbiests" they should be sold out pretty quickly at 5 bucks to your 12.
although I actually feel hobiests that are selling their goods, should be as high or higher than commercial producers in their area. but thats just my opinion.

[Kev]

The tap count is the US is going up every year and with the new technologies and more and more producers running high vacuum, check valves, and etc on top of increase in tap count. If we get some normal weather years, the prices are going to have to come down and may come down a lot as the reserves are starting to get big which is not normally a problem in the US at least in past decade or two.

yes good point and it seems there is never a shortage of used buckets as small producers upgrade to gravity and gasp modern vac systems. making it affordable for the little hobbiests to get started

I can not see how anyone using hydrocarbon fuel can come down in price.
you might see them quit wholesale and go strictly retail( again just my dumb opinion)
Although based on what I see on here, it seems 80 percent are wood fired

[BryanEx]

it seems there is never a shortage of used buckets
There certainly is in my area. The largest dealer in Ontario can't get enough of them and as soon as new inventory arrives they are sold out again. It's to the point that if I see aluminum buckets in good shape in a store I will buy them and figure out what to do with them later. The rusty galvanized stuff just doesn't seem to move like the aluminum.

[Kev]

There certainly is in my area. The largest dealer in Ontario can't get enough of them and as soon as new inventory arrives they are sold out again. It's to the point that if I see aluminum buckets in good shape in a store I will buy them and figure out what to do with them later. The rusty galvanized stuff just doesn't seem to move like the aluminum.

wow it seems most places down here(US) allways have some for sale.
I am going to try some backyards I have been skipping, with gravity and barrels by the houses. then suck from a pump at the truck for collection. keeping buckets in the front yards. (as long as the homeowner doesnt mind that is!) but with a 2x4 evap I need to build an RO or cook for 20 hours straight...

[CBOYER]

A lot of new small producers make syrup just to dont care whit the high price of syrup to put in a recipe.
Recently, Maxi in qc (Food store like Hannaford for US) sold Medium 540 ml can for $5... there usual prices are in 9-10$, so everyone could mixed up market.:confused:

[RevDoc]

I am of the opinion that few, if any hobby producers actually have any syrup to sell.

They DO, however, promote interest, awareness, and strong sales from all the free samples and goodwill they pass out between family, friends, and neighbors.

One is reminded that amateurs built and sailed the Ark, while professionals built and sailed the Titanic.

Anything and anyone that eliminates subsidized corn syrup and cane sugar has my full support, even if it's 3 taps in the back yard.

[802maple]

I sold equipment for all the "big boys" for a little over 20 years and the discounts are not huge. The tubing and containers are usually in the 20-25% range, Evaporators and other shiny stuff 15% and RO's 7-10% or atleast that is what it was back in 2005 when I got out of it. The mark up isn't bad as long as other dealers (that have a fulltime job and don't care if they make a living on it) aren't knocking huge discounts.

[3rdgen.maple]

You guys are all talking about more producers and Im seeing just the opposite here. I know of 2 producers in that had around 3000 taps each closed up and 3 small hobby type guys sell out. Amish moved in and undercut everyones prices and they couldnt make a go of it anymore plus the few bad years in a row and they were done. One had no family interested in taking over and the guy retired. HIs stuff is still sitting in a falling down shack. Family want nothing to do with letting anyone in there to sell any of it. Come to think of it another producer passed away a few years ago and his only son wanted nothing to do with it either. I just kept pluggin along and sales have gone up especially after people started tasting the watered down syrup from the Amish. I even have aquaired a bartering deal with an amish family for syrup and the guys father is one of those producers that hurt the local with pricing and He said he even prefers my syrup over his dads.

[802maple]

In about twenty miles in any direction around me there are nearly 80,000 new taps as far as I can estimate.

[BryanEx]

Would you say the majourity of those 80,000 taps are expansion of existing producers or new start ups?

[802maple]

Both, one of the expansions added 6000 this year with a possible 60,000 in the future although he will take some time to get there. Several other 5-8000 expansions. There are 4 new ones that I know of with 2-3000 taps with possibilities of 12000 for 3 of them. There is a new 20,000 tap operation going in about a mile from my place for next year. And I don't know how many 500 to 1500 expansions that went in this year, but I can think of atleast 10.

[Tweegs]

With just 200 taps, you could safely call us hobbyists.

We have a couple here in town that we are friendly with. They run a 10k tap operation up in Cheboygan. We keep a watch on their site and match their pricing. I figure if they can get 9 bucks a pint, so can I. Too much work involved to sell it on the cheap.

We do a few gate sales and put up a booth at local events that allow it, but most of our sales come from those at work…in the city…no competition from other hobbyists there.

An increase in folks sugaring? I’d put my money on the affirmative.

Sent my wife over to Sugarbush a couple of weeks ago for supplies. They always do a sprite business, but she said she’s never seen it that packed. Usually, there’s time to jaw a bit with Rick or Mary, but the wife says poor Rick had broken a sweat. Rick isn’t the kind to sweat much, so business had to be good to get him moving that quickly. Good on ‘em, I say.

One fella saw my buckets out and drove up for a chat. Says there are a bunch of us hobbyists in the area, mostly gate sales. We didn’t talk about new start ups, but he did know the guy that owned this property before me, who also sugared. Apparently, this fellow who stopped by is a bucket runner of old.

We made it a point last year to check out the typical venues where someone who made syrup might sell it (farmers markets, festivals, etc.). Nary could a vendor be found. It’ll be interesting to see if things change this year.

[SDdave]

Don't worry about me selling to any of your customers!;) I would be hard pressed to find enough trees to be able to sell. But if you start guiding pheasant hunts, well then gloves off:lol:

All in fun,

SDdave

[SPILEDRIVER]

i think one of the things that is adding to the # of hobbiest is the fact that so many people are getting away from the processed sugar/fake white crap.the more health minded and back to natural folks get will just up the demand.you cant get more natural or organic than drilling a whole taking the sap,boiling and surprise surprise youve got good for you maple syrup!:rolleyes::mrgreen::lol:

[bowtie]

i started tapping last year at the age of 37 because my 7 yr old son thought it it would be fun. had 20 taps and a small pan on open fire. this year have 40 taps on same small pan but getting a 2x4 mason,bought small tanks to haul,and have decided to go to 100-125 taps/buckets next year. i am hooked and figure that there is nothing else to do this time of year anyhow. we plan to sell some to friends and maybe at local markets next year and looked into pricing, and felt that we should be a little lower than the big guys but not much because it is actually more "work" for small or hobby producers, they/we do it on our spare time, do not have the equip/help. i really just want to get some of my investment back from the supplies while having a good time. i really do not think the influx of new tappers will hurt the big guys, look at the recent climb in people having chickens, i have not heard of any poultry farmers getting hurt by this. by they we have 17 hens of various breeds and 3 roosters(1 mean sob) because my oldest son also thought it would be fun!! guess i am just a sucker!!

[Gary in NH]

I am of the opinion that few, if any hobby producers actually have any syrup to sell.

They DO, however, promote interest, awareness, and strong sales from all the free samples and goodwill they pass out between family, friends, and neighbors.

One is reminded that amateurs built and sailed the Ark, while professionals built and sailed the Titanic.

Anything and anyone that eliminates subsidized corn syrup and cane sugar has my full support, even if it's 3 taps in the back yard.

AMEN RevDoc !!!!

[adk1]

I will chime in. I bet if you went back 100 years, there would be more producers scattered about. some sold syrup or more prominetly sugar to make alittle money, but most was used by the family. I cant tell you how many old run down sugarhouses I see dotting the farmlands of NYS. they seem to be around.

I think its something that today many are not doing because of schedules and the fact that if they want real maple syrup, they buy it no matter the price.

I for one am in it to start a family tradition. I wish someone else in my family before me started one, but I am happy to do it.

So I will be starting next spring and I know of another guy not for from me who is starting an operation.

[PapaSmiff]

I started sugaring to show my grandson how it was done. We both got hooked. Next year I'm hoping to find lots more trees, a larger evaporator, and make this into a family tradition.

[TapME]

I'm only keeping the tradition of someone in the family making syrup. It may not be the same place but I am the 4th gen and saphauler will be the 5th to do sugaring. It all started in Victoriaville Quebec. I sure am hoping one of the grand kids will.

[bees1st]

Bowtie- why should you "BE a little lower than the big guys" you should price the same if not more, don't undersell your self

[markct]

Bowtie- why should you "BE a little lower than the big guys" you should price the same if not more, don't undersell your self

let me just chime in on my theory of why i price a little below the bigger guy, i do not have the convenience of a store with set business hours for my customers, and nor do i have the overhead of running a store and being open set hours, thus i feel my customers should have a bit of an incentive to go outa there way to get my syrup.

[highlandcattle]

I think that many people are looking to try to make a few extra bucks. It costs so much to get started the right way, I don't know how many will stick it out or how many can be supported in this terrible economy. We just looked at our figures from when we started in 2002(my husband and his family always sugared) and ugh!!!!!! Got to get the sales and production up and keep finding customers, we keep it affordable, but everyone argues about the price anyway! Well, when I go to buy something, I can argue all I want, but if I want it, I pay.... make any sense? Oh yeah, always getting calls to do farmers markets, used to before you needed a million dollar insurance coverage!!!! That's what happens when people know they can make an easy living suing everyone over nothing! This isn't how life is suppossed to be, we should be helping each other, not hurting...

[BryanEx]

let me just chime in on my theory of why i price a little below the bigger guy...
I'll chime in on why I price the same or higher... :) The people that purchase my syrup know me personally, they know where I live, they know my property, and I produce and package to meet their desires. You can buy a suit off an assembly line or have one custom tailored. I'm a custom tailor of maple syrup and in my market area people are willing to pay for that. I would rather hold the inventory until next year than sell cheap and so far it's never been an issue. Don't apologize for your pricing and don't buy at retail only to sell at wholesale.

- Bryan

[markct]

a good take on it bryan, i didnt mean to imply that i was selling my syrup for half the "big guys" price, im maybe a buck or two at most less, so not to the point that im hurting anyones sales i dont think.