Flat Pan Modification

[wnybassman]

I bought my flat pan before the beginning of last season and have been pretty happy with it. I had it made with two separate compartments to mimic the batch boiling like I have been used to, with a drain port for each compartment. It is a 2' by 4' pan, but the front section is 18" and the rear section is 30".

Here is the pan..................

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s163/wnybassman/maple/2011_panbefore.jpg


While spending countless hours boiling and staring at the pan, my mind wanders. lol I think I want to convert it to a more traditional divided pan. A buddy of mine really wants to do the work and is a very skilled welder.

Anyway I want to add two dividers to the rear part to make three 8"x30" sections, knock out a corner in my existing partition, and add one divider to the front part to make two 9"x24" sections. It works out perfect as my preheater would already dump into the right spot, and the draw-off would be at the end. I already have a temp probe port there too

Here is my plan...............

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s163/wnybassman/maple/2011_panafter.jpg

Do you think this would work? What might my draw-off size be if I maintain 1 to 1 1/4"?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have 1/2" draw off on my 3X10 so dont get all caught up in the size thing:rolleyes:..........If you had a 1/4" draw off you would have it open more than a 1/2".....................WHAT Yup its all about how long you want your draws to be. BUT ....BUT you want to be able to clean the rig and draw off alot at once so plan for big I would put in a 1" port and bush it down to 1/2". Looks like a good plan on the dividers. OH YEA this is for 3rd gen........................Your belts need tightening:lol:

[RileySugarbush]

Consider dividing your front pan in three channels like a halfpint. That is where your will be finishing and you need narrow channels to preserve the gradient.

To really speed up the evaporation, add drop tubes to the back section, significantly increasing the surface area. It is easy to do yourself. Soldering copper tubes to stainless is very doable. Dividers optional there, but I think no more than two sections.

[Indiana-Jones]

Would it be worth designing in a way to reverse the flow?

[Bernie/MA]

I made my son-in-law's 2x4' the same as you've drawn except in reverse with the two dividers going across in the back and four dividers going lengthwise in the front. The drawoff 1/2" pipe is at the middle of the side at the end of the fourth divider which is where it's the hottest. It works really well. Rate is about 8gph with no grate blower, which he plans to add next year.

[wnybassman]

That's where I feel my average gph is at also. When it's really cranking I think I can put about 10 gph through it, but then there's times when I am at 5 or 6. 8 would be my average also.

For volume, the front 24" x 9" section would be 120 fluid ounces if kept an inch deep, and 240 at 2". So somewhere in between there would be a gallon and a half. Would I expect the whole front section to be near (or at) syrup at the same time? I still plan on finishing in the house, but it will be sooooo much better if I am very close to syrup already.

I am not seeing a good way to reverse flow. If I had two equal sections I could probably do something like that.

What other configuration might be better than what I have drawn?

Perhaps this might be better? It would make the syrup sections a tad smaller.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s163/wnybassman/maple/2011_panafter2.jpg

[Indiana-Jones]

This conversation is very interesting to me because I'm like most people here, looking to upgrade for next year. A new pan of some design is in my future and it would be great if I had an idea what it will look like.

[3rdgen.maple]

Just curious but what exacally are you trying to acheive bassman? Putting in dividers is not going to up your gph it will just allow you to not have to batch boil anymore. If you are looking for more gph you have to increase your surface area or for small changes look into arch modifications. My vote says sell the pan and get a 2x2 flue pan made and a 2x2 syrup pan. You should see a much bigger increase in gph. There was a pan on ebay from Patrick that looks really slick. It is an all in one pan with a preheater flue pan and syrup pan built into a single pan. 2x4 to boot. I want one just to play with it or set it up for the kids to run and make some of their own syrup they can be proud of but I think the 3x8 loaded is in my near future first.

[wnybassman]

I realize I will not change my gph, I do want to get away from batch boiling though and have a product that I bring in the house much closer to syrup than I bring in now. Stuff I bring in now I can boil anywhere from 2 to 5 hours before it is finished. It would be nice to cut down the inside boiling and get it closer outside. Besides, I can have these mods done very inexpensively right now. Just the cost of the materials if that.

[Fred Henderson]

This is a pic of the first evap I ever had and I made it, maybe this will help you decide what to do. I no longer have it but it is still in use. With good dry wood I could do 3/4 GPH. I had a float box and used 3/4 draw off valves

[concord maple]

Just curious but what exacally are you trying to acheive bassman? Putting in dividers is not going to up your gph it will just allow you to not have to batch boil anymore. If you are looking for more gph you have to increase your surface area or for small changes look into arch modifications. My vote says sell the pan and get a 2x2 flue pan made and a 2x2 syrup pan. You should see a much bigger increase in gph. There was a pan on ebay from Patrick that looks really slick. It is an all in one pan with a preheater flue pan and syrup pan built into a single pan. 2x4 to boot. I want one just to play with it or set it up for the kids to run and make some of their own syrup they can be proud of but I think the 3x8 loaded is in my near future first.

3rdgen.maple,
I am using this pan from Patrick this year. I had him modify it a little by removing the preheater section and extending the drop flue area which gives me 30" length of 8-5" drop flues. The front is divided cross flow as he originally designed. I have no blower on it and with dry wood I am getting about 12 gph boil rate and I don't fill the firebox to FULL capacity . Been happy so far with it.

[EMyers]

3rdgen.maple,
I am using this pan from Patrick this year. I had him modify it a little by removing the preheater section and extending the drop flue area which gives me 30" length of 8-5" drop flues. The front is divided cross flow as he originally designed. I have no blower on it and with dry wood I am getting about 12 gph boil rate and I don't fill the firebox to FULL capacity . Been happy so far with it.

Is there supposed to be a picture attached to this post? Would like to take a look at that pan please!

[Greenwich Maple Man]

That's where I feel my average gph is at also. When it's really cranking I think I can put about 10 gph through it, but then there's times when I am at 5 or 6. 8 would be my average also.

For volume, the front 24" x 9" section would be 120 fluid ounces if kept an inch deep, and 240 at 2". So somewhere in between there would be a gallon and a half. Would I expect the whole front section to be near (or at) syrup at the same time? I still plan on finishing in the house, but it will be sooooo much better if I am very close to syrup already.

I am not seeing a good way to reverse flow. If I had two equal sections I could probably do something like that.

What other configuration might be better than what I have drawn?

Perhaps this might be better? It would make the syrup sections a tad smaller.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s163/wnybassman/maple/2011_panafter2.jpg

Just a small piece of advice to all sugarmakers making there own rigs. I started sugaring on a very small scale at the age of eight. My father then got into it and we did more each year. Every year for about five years we made evaporaters of cement blocks. We ran two of these with flat pans that were 36 by 30. With a hundred taps we were able to keep up. Looking back we have both said that we should have spent the money in the beggining and bought a used evaporater. We would have been alot of money ahead not to mention time.I understand that money is always the problem but if you are planning to stay in this then try to buy a evaporater. In the end it will be more worth while and cost less than trying to make or have one made.. After now having three evaporaters it is very clear that we should have bought a good used one at the start. Just a short learning expierence I thought may help someone out.

[mike z]

I have to agree with that statement. It's fun to try and imagine a "better way" to evaporate water. I've spent countless hours trying, and I have to say, everything I've thought of has been mentioned here. We're all crazy. In the end I would have saved money and a lot of time/hard work if I would have bought new. That's where every serious mapler will end up I believe. But man THE COST.

[mike z]

Ok, then. I like the direction you're going in here, or your sap that is, :lol:. I would add a temp probe fitting and you're set. Just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between it and the draw off. Those thermometers are huge.

[wnybassman]

So I ended up having my pan modified. My original buddy that was doing the welding struggled immensely. He thought the pan was going to be a lot thicker for some reason, although it is very thick at 18 gauge, he was not used to it. He gave up halfway through because he didn't want to totally destroy the pan.

So then I took it to a local guy that has done work on our work trailers, and I also remember seeing large syrup pans in his shop when we had that work done. He finished up the work and fixed the other welders work the best he could. He charged peanuts for doing it, so I probably should have went there to begin with. Lesson learned. Lots of lessons in this hobby, isn't there? lol

The pan does look a little better in person than the pics show. The bottom got a touch oil panned but it shouldn't be a problem. Also, the entire pan has a twist to it now, but it takes very little force to return it to flat, and I already devised a way to hold it down on my rig, if the weight of sap alone doesn't do it. It's not as pretty as it once was, and hopefully I didn't make a big mistake in doing this.

I did have a temp. port welded in when the pan was originally made. I bought a dial gauge late last season, and screwed it for the first time a couple months ago. The 6" stem is perfect (I think) just hovering between an 1/8" and 1/4" off the bottom of the pan.

Itching to use it and see if I can get close to syrup right outside without to many headaches.



http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s163/wnybassman/maple/1-1-2011_pan.jpg

[jmayerl]

Yikes! That pan sure does look twisted. I'm sure with sap it will be ok. It should help to get some draws rather than batch boiling now.