maple conference report

[Maple Flats]

I just got home from the maple conf and wanted to touch base. Chris and Kim had a mapletrader.com name tag ready for me and I picked up an accu-cup that I had bought last monday. Now I should get perfect density every time. I walked around the dealer displays with my wife, sure is a lot of things to spend the money I don't have on. Digital hydrometers, new electric bottling valves for the canner with foot operator switch, air bubblers, RO, uv, ss spouts, cream makers, etc, etc, etc. It is mind boggling how many new and improved things there are out there.
I met Johnny Cuervo and had a good conversation about his operation and where he is located. It seems I have passed his place many times not knowing who it was. I also met up with massey jack, had a good conversation and picked up some 50 buckets and lids he had brought for me. They look like good ones. These are the ones he posted in the for sale section for a farmer friend who used to maple it years ago. They are every bit worth the $3 ea with lid. I will still use mostly tubing but a few will be done in buckets and especially at least one near the sugarhouse for visitors to look at. I spoke with CHRIS a while about his bottling valve with foot switch, I think I will have one sooner or later (might even be this year, not sure. It would save time and mess, not a bad combination. One dealer had a low ball price on 50ml maple leaf bottles so I got a couple of cases and then another guy came up and got the last 2 cases (the dealer was going to try to get more to the show for tomorrow if he could). I think about 10-15% of the booths were still not there, hope they show for tomorrow. The seminars tomorrow will be real good as they have in the past I'm sure. I will try to post after the show and seminars tomorrow and hope I can do a little justice to it (I am by no means a good reporter, just a rambler.)

[brookledge]

Sounds like a good conference. One of these years I'll get to that one. I'm missing my own assoc. meeting next week because I'm leaving on thursday for a 10 day cruise.
Keith

[syrupmaker]

Wanted to go this year but overtime is a hard thing to turn down these days. Jim (Mapleman ) called me yesterday busting on me for not heading over. I had my fix though this morning, walked out to the garage with coffee and looked through the Leader and Algier cats. from last year. I'm sure there was plenty of new stuff to see and lots of meetin and greetin going on between trader folks. Always neat to put a face to a person that you have been typing to for so long. Hopefully next year.

Rick

[Maple Flats]

Wow, what a conference. There were an estimated 525+ attendees and as far as I saw, everything went smoothly. The workshop sessions I chose were all good. I will now try maple candy using what looks to be a much simpler method by making maple cream and when ready to make candy just heat a qt or so in the microwave, stiring each minute until hot enough to flow and pour it into the moulds. I sampled some that had been coated by heating some syrup to boil+4 degrees and lowering the candy into the results for 6-12 hrs and then letting drain and then package, the sample was from dec 04 and was still good. I found what sounds like a better way to wash tubing using peroxide. I will go over this in the tubing section over the next few days. I went to a timberstand improvement session and learned more about managing for sugar and what ever your other goals are. This was covered in 2 different sessions and each added more info. I also saw a presentation about uv and some numbers to back it up. 1 that sticks in my mind is that if you start with 2 1/2 % sap and do not treat it you have 2% after just 12 hrs of storage. This is calculating from yield and not the hydrometer because you get a false reading when the bacteria has consumed the sugar. Now I need more new equipment. Will it never end?
I met several fellow mapletrader members but since I did not write them down I will await the picture to be posted by Chris or Kim so I won't miss anyone. I do know massey Jack missed the picture as he was elsewhere when it was taken. I think all others there were in the picture of those who post but I also looked at the membership list and know others were there as presenters who have never posted but are registered members. Can't see why anyone registers and then does nothing after. Well, I'm done rambling for now, THE CONFERENCE WAS GREAT. For next year my wife and I are going to offer 2 bedrooms for mapletraders to use, the first choice has been offered to massey jack and his wife, if they accept, only one is still available. Next year's is Jan 5, 6, 2007 and my house is 15 minutes away.

[markcasper]

How much truth is there to the sugar content going down after 12 hours storage?

Was the person giving the presentation a dealer or manufacturer of the UV sterilizers? Of course if he was, then he'd be in business to sell his product.

Now if the sap starts out at 2 1/2% and loses .05% after 12 hours storage, that would mean a sugar % of 0% after 60 hours, or 2 1/2 days.

I have stored sap for as long as a week and by using this data, you'd be in the -% range and I have never seen this before. I'd be stupid if I was still cooking negative % sap.

[mapleman3]

I too just got home about an hour ago... Nice having a van frive you up and back...we ended up with 10 of us going from the Mass Maple Assoc. Learned some more great stuff today to try.. but real excited about using the foot operated bottling valve and accucup I bought from Chris And Kim today.. oh and a digital thermometer to do deeper into my canner... Chris has a great gizmo with that valve.. allows you to sit and bottle basically hands free(then move the bottle of course) Nice to see everyone there today.. kinda like an anuall reunion we got going here!!!


If anyone is interested.. Ma Maple is having their annual meeting and trade show next Saturday.... if your interested I can give you more info

[Maple Flats]

The presenter was the inventer, but his assertion was backed up by Lyle Merle (sp?) a producer. The tests he showed revealed that the actual syrup produced was down after the 12 hrs but most of the 1mmediate damage was done after this period. Not that the organisims stopped butr that the % of drop was the greatest during this first 12 hrs. According to the presenter, If you want to test it yourself you do not need to buy anything. Just test a real fresh batch of sap, calculate the syrup from this and process it a half day later and see how much you get. You would need to finish off everything in this batch, then see how much syrup there is, according to him the average results will be about 20% loss. If it proves that I am too quick to accept a sales pitch please correct me. If I do add a unit it would not be his but rather one I can get from when I was in the water treatment business and still have ties to, I would just run it at a slower gal/min rate than the water flow rate to get the results I want. My goal if possible is to only have loooong boils on the weekends and boil during the week during the day (my wife) and early evening and not into the laaate night hours, but rather get a decent night's sleep. If I had a couple of real good days this would mean that sap would be stored longer than I ever have. In the past I have never had sap older than about 36-40 hrs but it sounds like I could then get it to save for more like 72 and even 96 hours. If I did this I would likely run the uv thru a recirculating cycle to retreat the sap for the extended cycle. This recirc. idea is one that Lyle Merle was doing but not one that the inventer suggested (He however did not say it was not needed). It just sounded like a real good iead to me, and I have been planning uv for about 2 years now anyway for the storage aspect, had not considered the lost sugar end except if I had to dump sap.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

I have stored sap for seven days and I don't believe it either and I can't ever see hardly any difference between same day boil and week old sap boil. I am sure there is a touch difference, but 20% 8O . A lot of what you hear in the maple business is a greedy sales pitch. Of course most of the products out there help a little, but are they worth the $$$. I have a UV and think they are a great investment along with so many other products out there, but I think they facts are way overstated! 8O

[Rob Harvey]

The effect of the bacteria would depend a great deal on how warm it was. In cold weather you wouldnt have much bacteria to start with and it would multiply slowly, therefore the effect would take longer. It would be interesting to know at what temp. they did their testing. Bacteria does feed on sugar so there is no question that it does happen, just a matter of how long it takes. Rob.

[gearpump]

I wonder if anyone has tried to flash pasteurize sap?! I know this would probally be expensive and complicated but the bacteria would be killed. I know with milk they heat it up and then super cool it.

Marty

[Maple Flats]

I believe they stated 50 degree sap

[themapleking]

I never heard of sugar % going down in 12 hrs. Something is missing hear. I've had 2% sap on wednesday and still had 2% on saturday when I boiled. U.V unit just kills bactirea.
Try this test guys make up some sugar water, get a sugar % test reading put one sample in the refridge and one sample out at room temp. And retest both samples in 3 days and see what you get.

[markcasper]

Maple King, That would be a good experement, you'd probably want to make sure the sap in both tests is covered though, so that no evaporation takes place to the air and thus would give a false reading.

I must say that its not in my intention to store sap for a week, but it has happened before and when its cold one can get away with it without much degradation. If its +50, thats a different story! Mark

[Kim]

It was great to see everyone!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/mapleguys/traders.jpg
Left to right: Chris, themapleking, Kim, mapleman3, Dropflue, Johnny Cuervo, Maple Flats

Missing from the photo: Massey Jack (anyone else?)

Also, special thanks to Dave R & his wife, Kate, for all of their help at the show!

[Maple Flats]

The speaker (a man by the name Bill Harmon) said that a good UV unit kills bacteria and molds. (He also had a third but my notes are incomplete on that) He did not relate to cooler temps, just stated 50 degrees as the extreme loss of sugar. He did say the hydrometer would not show it but the boil would, something about the non sugar organisims are not disolved but they physically affect the reading showing more % than is real. If anyone tries the test you would need to evaporate the post test samples to go to syrup stage to actually show his statement correct or not. I do not agree with him or disagree, just want the discussion and some proof one way or the other.

[Parker]

After you run it through the UV light you would want to run it through a filter and boil it right away or the bacteria would start to grow agine???I guess I am unclear on the point of the UV light,,,can you hold onto the sap longer after it has passed through the light???or are you just killing and trying to remove the bacteria befor you boil???

[lew]

Remember, that when you take a sugar content reading with a hydrometer, you are actually testing for dissolved solids. sugar just happens to be the most prevalent dissolved solid present in maple sap, therefor a hydrometer reading gives a good approximation of how much sugar is present in sap, but not a absolute answer. I have made syrup for 20 years now and I can't remember too many times when we made the same amount of syrup that the hydrometer "said" we should make. It didn't matter if I had 1 load of sap or 10 loads of sap, my hydrometer readings versus my actual syrup produced never came out equal.


PS 1 load of sap = 1500 gallons

[Maple Flats]

The point of UV is to hold the sap longer and to maintain a higher grade, more yield is a added bonus if it is true. As I understand it UV is to kill bacteria, yeast and mold that grows in all collection systems and lowers grade and maybe yield. If true about increasing yield on storred sap you gain all around. I have ordered a UV and HOPE to gain on all of the above. Most years I have made about 30% light, 50% med and 20%dark, have never made grade B. I will compare this with this year's production and report post season.

[brookledge]

Ok then what needs to be done is take two equal amounts of fresh sap with the same sugar content. Boil one down to syrup and record the amount of syrup.
Let the other sample sit for 3-5 days at 45-50 degrees and then boil that into syrup. If the amount of syrup is the same then that answers the question.
It seems like the hydrometer test would work accurately, but if the speaker says it won't then someone should do the experiment to solve this once and for all.
This would be a good one for the proctor maple research group to do
Maybe they already have.
Keith

[Parker]

So when you test with a refractometer are the results right on the money? What would the differance betwen using a uv light and a DE filter be?? seems like the DE filter would do about the same job......I ask because I dont know........

[mapleman3]

The DE I Believe will clarify the sap , take out alot of suspended material like stuff from the tubing and other crud but I don't think it "Kills" Bacteria... which is what is deteriorating the sap in the first place... a pool filter Cleans and clarifys the water by removing all the dead stuff AFTER the chemical kills it.. The UV is the KILLER of bacteria in the sap room

[Maple Flats]

I wonder if a hydrometer after DE filter might be less apt to false read?

[Maple Flats]

comment on my previous grades produced, last year the only dark I made was the final batch from emptying the evap. and finishing off, all previous batches were med or light.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

Kevin, what happened to you this year? Thought you were going to the Conf? Long ride I know

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

he he he Kevin Iwas wondering when you would pick up on that :wink: it's been there a few months actually, I saw it on a motorcycle forum signiture so I sorta adopted it.. thought it was appropiate for here after all I know I'm here to Learn Learn Learn.. if I can teach I will try.
as far as your question??? thats an interesting one, I can't imagine what they would do unless they used one of those laboratory spinny things like they use to seperate blood samples.. would that seperate the niter from the syrup?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Sugarmaker]

Mapleman3,
I put a link back to your site from mine , Thanks for getting me interested and involved.
And we are learning and teaching too.
Nice job answering that question on spinning the niter.

[mapleman3]

Sweet!! Thanks Kev!
And thanks Chris for the Link.... I need to get back to work on the site before the season starts.. many new pics from all of you to add

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

count me out on that... how bout a uv light?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

I will step aside and let others try... I've answered too many of your quizes :wink: I'm just lucky like that :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

Kevin, your a man of your word !! :D Thanks a bunch, I recieved the bit in perfect condition and will use it for the "ceremonial first tapping" and of course all the rest too :wink:

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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