Lady with a Question!

[LadyLuck]

Hi, folks! I'm new to the forum. I recently moved into a cute cottage with a few acres of woodland and wanted to let my uncle tap the property this year to add to his yield. Of course, moving in meant too much chaos so we never got around to tapping my lot. My "neighbors" swooped in to ask if they could do it this year instead because they've done before on this particular lot (for the elderly woman who lived here previously).

I figured that'd be fine but I did make one very specific request - that there be no more than 2 buckets max on my larger trees. They agreed and marched off all chipper. The act made me feel neighborly for once and less liable to be a little bit of a hermit... Which ultimately is a sign that whatever I just did (that was nice) will come back and bite me in the bum.

Sure enough, they've put four or FIVE or even SIX taps on all my trees - it looks insane! My boyfriend thinks I'm about to have an early-spring meltdown again like last year when poaching with the usage of deer dogs on my parent's farmland turned into a crisis; which we solved but in a rather bastardly way.

I'm hoping I don't have to become totally belligerent but I'm sitting in my living room staring at the trees they tapped IN MY FRONT YARD with five buckets crowded on them.

Worse yet, the young man who came to my door got snotty and told me that once the tap is in then they can't take it out until the sap's done running. Now, I'm more of a sugar-shack rat verses out there collecting or tapping so I have no idea if that's true or not (or why it matter's since I'm the land owner and requested they pull the taps). Either way, I have have a mind to return the buckets (all of them, off every tree) and let the sap hit the ground even if that's the case. I'm furious. What do I do? What can I do? Can I take out the taps? Ugh...

Help!? :confused:

Lady L

[adk1]

yeah, pull the taps.

[mvh1969]

I agree, pull the taps.

[innoxen]

Things like this give everyone a black eye... As a landowner, if it were me on my land, pull the taps and return to them...

[Dill]

Well before we go off half cocked, how big are the trees? And gravity, buckets or vac?

[nas]

Well before we go off half cocked, how big are the trees? And gravity, buckets or vac?
I don't think it matters. They agreed to two taps max. I say pull them all, and sell the buckets.

Nick

[Rossell's Sugar Camp]

You obviously want the taps pulled. So take them out and take them to their owners.

[RileySugarbush]

Especially if they are snotty about it. You did them a good turn in letting them tap. They didn't live up to their agreement, and are not even apologetic. The tree won't care if the taps are there or not, but you do! Pull them!

[Flat47]

I say pull 'em
BUT:
What state are you in? Most every state has some kind of State Forest Service or Department of Agriculture or Agriculture Extension. Maybe worth a call. Here in Maine, the Dept of Ag regulates commercial sugaring and has a lot of advise and educational offerings for landowners. But it's our State Forest Service Rangers who enforce the laws of land ownership and use (and misuse). They'd be the ones to have a talk with about your rights and recourse. Verbal agreements are tough to prove, but sometimes a visit from an officer is all it takes to send the message that you mean business.

The whole bit of "can't remove the taps until the sap stops running" is complete BS. That right there is enough to bring my blood to a low boil if somebody said it to me. Like someone said, the tree doesn't know and doesn't care if there's a tap in the hole or not. While I hate to see sap hit the ground, they are your trees and it's your call.

[Kev]

I would pull them.
or I would take 3/4 of the sap to your uncle :evil:
I can not emagine doing this to someone. but then I like returning year after year :D In my feeble mind it seems theysubstancialy hampered future tap locations. am I all wet to think that?

[sapman]

They sound like great neighbors. NOT! I can't believe their gall. Obviously, the damage has been done to the trees. No fixing that, though they will probably be fine. But I'd still pull them out of principle.

[rinert]

I would pull the taps and have a tree expert look at them to see if any permanent damage was done. I think that they should be liable and I would write a letter to the paper so they wont do it to someone else. These guys should be glad it was not my trees.

[MontyVT]

I'd call them and give them 3 days to remove them all. If they don't, put a sign up advertising free buckets, lids and spouts, and send a copy to the neighbors.

[Bucket Head]

I would pull them and firmly explain why. Like, "When you asked permission you agreed to no more than two taps. And not being able to remove the taps before the season ends is untrue". And whatever else they said that turned out to be a lie.

They lied to you, then lied again, and apparently consider you to be unintelligent. And I also like the "visit from an officer" idea, if possible.

Steve

[LadyLuck]

Thank you all!

Word spreads like wildfire up here, as I hoped when making phone calls this evening. They called and talked to my father because they're all tip toeing around me. But I'm not one to roll over when they try to soothe me through my father, who has tried to play mediator. Yet, anything so unreasonable as 4-6 giant buckets girdling a poor tree is ridiculous (I've all ready taken the one with the 6 buckets down since I almost cried thinking they're going to kill the darn thing, might plug it with a dowel that'll swell maybe?).

From what it sounds like they realized it was the last season they were going to get out of using this land so they are taking what they can get. He even told my father that they sort of "need a little extra this year" - don't we all. Granted, sugaring up here pays for the beer, wood, gas, pizza, and cigarette costs associated with the process verses any real additional profit so nobody's pulling that wool over my eyes. And now all of it's going on the ground because of this. There's enough trees up on my uncle's lot to tap that we'll stay busy and have another 20-30 gallon yield if she runs well.

BTW, I'm in NY and have no issues with land rights or old leases or anything of that ilk. I do know that our camp deed, for a different lot, has no mineral rights, as they are held by some mining company that went defunct over 75 years ago so I guess it's all in limbo but they were at one point sold.

Other than all this craziness, I'm stoked for this season's worth of sugaring with my uncle and family. So long as people stay off my property. Hah.

Thanks again, folks!

PS - These are traditional style taps and buckets, no lines or vacs just a spout and bucket. These trees range between being roughly 20-36 inches in diameter but most are on the smaller end except for the three in my yard which are totally hacked up with spouts. Most are on the smaller end, between 20-25 inches and are sporting 4 spouts & buckets a pop.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

option 1: pull every thing tell them come get them.
option 2: pull all but what you two agreed on for bucket limit you told them.

take pictures before you do anything.

My bro-inlaw is in a law suit right now because of verbal agreement he has had for over 20 years with the land owners.

Get it in writing if you should ever let some one tap your property again, or you would be the person asking for tapping rights.

I don't know exact amount that it is costing my bro-inlaw but at $350 an hour it can't be cheap.

[cvmaple]

I really feel bad for you.We plugged our spile holes with corks last year but I don't know if this would help you. I hope you don't let this ruin your spring but it had to be hard to look out the window and see a tree with 5-6 buckets on it!! Not really neighbourly of them at all. At least they know they're in the wrong. Hope your season gets better!!

[Flat47]

Don't plug the tap hole with anything. It won't help the tree. Just let them heal and maybe the sight of sap dripping down the trunk and not in their buckets will have an effect on your neighbors. They should be ashamed.

[katmike]

Now I am a little more devious. Wonder what would I would do? Maybe dump the sap and fill the buckets with water? Nawwww... even I couldn't dump precious sap. Nevermind.

[Southtowns27]

I wouldn't be too worried about your trees. I have lots of big old trees with 4 taps in them right now. 6 is a little much, but I seriously doubt it will have a long term effect on it. DO NOT plug the tap holes, it will only slow the healing process.
It really does sound like the neighbor thinks you haven't a clue about anything. I also say they need to remove everything since they didn't follow your request. Have them remove the buckets and taps. Why should you do all that work? If they won't cooperate, call the PD.

[lafite]

I like the idea of writing an editorial to the local paper. I wouldn't want them to do it to anyone else in the future.

I can't post what I would have done....:evil:

[happy thoughts]

No advice here but I feel your pain. The good Lord will take care of the trees... and hopefully your "neighbors" as well.

[BobU]

Very sorry to hear of your neighbor's betrayal. As someone said earlier, I won't say what I would do to their equipment.
I could forgive many things, but an attack on my trees, NOT on the list of forgiveables.
Have a good season anyway!

[ComputerSteve]

I'm a firm believer in doing what you say you're going to do, and if you don't then you should expect to pay the consequences. You deserve to expect the actions you both agreed upon, and they broke that agreement. As their consequence, I would pull the taps, gather all the equipment together, then call them and tell them to pick it up. I would also calmly tell them why they are no longer welcome to tap your trees. However I would remain cool and collected, and not lower myself to their level of behavior.

Good luck!

[Timber Juice]

I'm feeling an urge for a road-trip to help someone with removing buckets.:evil:

Call the state forester, have him see the damage first hand.
Have them and/or the local officers watch you remove them.

Stack them all by the road and tell the perpetrators to come pick them up.
30 minutes or the recycling center.
Have the locals tell them they no longer have permission to be on that property for any reason.

They can't be trusted to not do further harm to your trees as they remove everything.
They have proven they have no respect for you or anyone else's property.

If they're snotty again(have the recorder ready) time for news releases.
Sounds like you have what it takes.

How many buckets total are we talking about? Maybe they do need to do the work themselves.
But only under supervision, perhaps a TV camera, reporter, other reputable syrupers, make it a party that they have to leave.

Goodluck