cheap bulk storage

[TrentonTerry]

I am in a pinch right now with 400 litres of sap sitting in the 4 gallon water jugs (yes there are 20 of them covered with tarp and snow) as my arch goes through iterations to boil off more.

Its expensive buying the plastic jugs and chucking the water. Can I go to walmart and buy a rubbermaid bin and store the sap in there for 1-2 days?

I know I can get food drums (as suggested on here), but the local person said it will take a week and at that point its too late for me. It is something I will investigate over the summer months and get ready for next year.

Is there any way to work with a new rubbermaid bin (those plastic bins people use to store stuff). Or perhaps the rope handled open top bins? I dont care if some bugs get in as they will be filtered out.

I just need something I can use tonight that holds 100L or more in one container!

Thanks in advance!

[Brent]

There was a long thread a few months ago about Rubbermaid and other bins. Look it up. Lots of discussion.

[Shaun]

I just purchased water jugs from walmart to store sap. Aftre opening and takeing one wiff I had to see what they were made of. A little research show they were # 3 for recycling. Number 3 and 7 are some of the "most toxic " plastic as far as leaching goes. Any way I brought them back, shouldn't have expected more from wal mart.

[vikingHB]

TrentonTerry,

Check this 1000 litre water tote just down the road in Peterborough for only $80. (see attaced shortcut to Kijiji) A few Walmart containers will cost you this much, and you will only have 100 litres of storage.
Maybe a good idea for this year, or next. If you are getting 400 litres of sap sitting around this might be a good solution going forward.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/f-water-totes-Classifieds-W0QQKeywordZwaterQ20totesQQPageZ2

[crackher]

Yup I use soemthing similar
it is great we have it mounted on a warehouse racking frame and it gravity feeds into out evap. we pump it up with a 12v pony pump or if we have a lot to do I fireup the generator and I have a booster pump that shoots it up there fast

[Brent]

That tote is almost identical to the ones Atkinson sells for $100 each or $85 for 5. Initially they have a strong vanilla flavour and have some cokacola syrup in them, but you can rinse it out and the smell never bothers the syrup. In fact there is some vanilla in pure maple syrup. They work well until you get slime growing on the inside. I cut a hole in the top this year about 2' x 2' so I can get inside to clean them after a warm day.

You can sometimes talk them into delivering to Brampton/Mississauga if are willing to wait until they are making a delivery run of syrup to a customer they have down here somewhere.
see http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/tanks_barrels/used_barrels_and_drums

[TrentonTerry]

Thanks, I will look into this over the summer. I will just let the sap sit and hopfully my arch 3.0 design will free up the jugs in a hurry (along with the current overnight lows above freezing for 2 nights) should buy me the time to free up some jugs.

I will pass on the rubbermaid stuff.

[sap seeker]

This has to be one of the most confusion subject in the whole process, especially for us backyard guys.:cry: In my case, I've been storing in 5 gal. water coolers. Works great but would be nice to get one bigger container. As far as what to get, who knows! So much conflicting info. regarding plastics. I've read on here that a #7 plastic is one of the worst for leaching..... guess what my bottled water comes in! Also, I have a couple of buckets that frozen strawberries came in marked hdpe 2. On the other hand, I have a couple of H.D. orange bucket that I use to collect with. Guess what, same exact marking as the strawberry buckets but not O.K.confused:

Some say Rubbermaid stock tanks o.k., some say bad.... same goes for Rubbermaid Brute... makes it hard to know what to do.

[happy thoughts]

This has to be one of the most confusion subject in the whole process, especially for us backyard guys.:cry: .....

From what I've read not all plastic containers are made alike even those with the same HDPE recycling number. The recycling number is not as important as whether or not the materials that went into making the container are FDA approved. There is a whole slew of FDA laws defining what makes a plastic food grade.

Non FDA approved containers may have additives like toxic dyes or have been made from recycled materials themselves. In that case, there is no telling what that plastic came in contact with in it's previous life so it would not be FDA approved for food.

From the following site which contains some good info on food grade plastic

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/plastics.html

"What Is Food Grade Plastic?
The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.

Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.

Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.
Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.
"

Hope that clears up some of the confusion:)

[sap seeker]

From what I've read not all plastic containers are made alike even those with the same HDPE recycling number. The recycling number is not as important as whether or not the materials that went into making the container are FDA approved. There is a whole slew of FDA laws defining what makes a plastic food grade.

Non FDA approved containers may have additives like toxic dyes or have been made from recycled materials themselves. In that case, there is no telling what that plastic came in contact with in it's previous life so it would not be FDA approved for food.

From the following site which contains some good info on food grade plastic

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/plastics.html

"What Is Food Grade Plastic?
The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.

Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.

Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.
Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.
"

Hope that clears up some of the confusion:)

Ya, clear as mud.:D I dare say there are more differing opinions on this subject than any other when it comes to sapping.:confused: I just don't want to kill anybody that i give syrup too!:o

[danno]

For anybody in the Central New York area, I found these guys the other day.

http://www.bronsteincontainer.com/

They are located about 5 minutes south of Syracuse. They have a very nice inventory of food grade containers in all sizes and very reasonable prices. I bought the 5 gallon syrup drums very similar to the blue ones the maple dealers sell for $17. I bought them for $8. They were closer to clear, than blue. but I'll keep them out of the light to keep the syrup from darkening. They did say they could get the blue ones if we were going to bulk buy.

They also have the 30 and 55 gallon food grade barrels. 30 gallon were about $40/piece. I asked them about stainless, they could not compete pricewise with the syrup dealers.

[happy thoughts]

Ya, clear as mud.:D I dare say there are more differing opinions on this subject than any other when it comes to sapping.:confused: I just don't want to kill anybody that i give syrup too!:o

No offense, but I think that's pretty clear. Not all HDPE plastics are food grade even if marked with the same recycling number. That number is just a recycling number and doesn't mean anything about being food grade or not.

In other words there's a world of difference between an HDPE 2 bucket bought at at Home depot and an HDPE 2 pail that held pastry filling. The first is meant for hauling tools and could have been made from recycled plastics that held toxic chemicals at one time. Under FDA rules there are higher standards for any plastic container intended for food storage such as those bakery pails.

If in doubt, don't use it.

[sap seeker]

I understood what you were saying and was just trying to have some fun with what is often a confusing topic on here, thought the :D would give it away, sorry. I appreciate you taking the time to explain the differences in options.

Running great here in Maine today!:cool:

[happy thoughts]

.... thought the :D would give it away, sorry. I appreciate you taking the time to explain the differences in options.

Running great here in Maine today!:cool:

LOL. No need to apologize. Glad to hear the taps are running! Running fantastic here as well. Almost wishing for an off valve:o

Good syrup and good health! May both our syrups turn out as dense as I can sometimes be:emb:

[sap seeker]

LOL. No need to apologize. Glad to hear the taps are running! Running fantastic here as well. Almost wishing for an off valve:o

Good syrup and good health! May both our syrups turn out as dense as I can sometimes be:emb:

Just seems like they could come up with a simpler system code system. For guys not in though know (like me), its easy to understand how someone with a HDPE 2 strawberry bucket and the same marking on a H.D. bucket would think that is fine a well.

I'm going to stay using my #7 water jugs as well, those companies that sell bottled water must know what they are doing safety wise.....let's hope atleast!:D

[happy thoughts]

Just seems like they could come up with a simpler system code system. For guys not in though know (like me), its easy to understand how someone with a HDPE 2 strawberry bucket and the same marking on a H.D. bucket would think that is fine a well.

I'm going to stay using my #7 water jugs as well, those companies that sell bottled water must know what they are doing safety wise.....let's hope atleast!:D

I agree that a different system would be easier to understand but that would mean more laws and I think we already have plenty of them, lol. All they would probably do is make the containers more expensive and drive up food prices. For now just use common sense. Just don't look at the recycling number and think it tells you something about food grade. It doesn't. But if a container is specifically sold to store human (not pet) food in, then it is food grade by law no matter what the recycling number marked on it.

Like you, I also trust that any container in which human food or drink was sold in is food grade and can be reused for sap ..... as long as you know nothing harmful was stored in it after it was first emptied.

I personally use those 5 Gallon water cooler jugs for collecting sap. I also use the heavy duty pastry filling pails that I got free from the bakery. They are a little over 4 Gals and the price can't be beat. I also have a nice 55 Gal barrel that I bought for $10. Soon as I figure out how to get the smell of olives out of it I might use that for sap storage as well.

[jmp]

I got this IBC container from a local maple syrup business that was upgrading. Cost $80.00 bucks and its food grade and holds 275 gallons. Maybe you could look for something similar.

[mnguy]

Here is a link with all the codes and what they can be used for. A friend of mine works in the plastic industry and this is what they use.

http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_plastics/bin.asp?CID=1102&DID=4645&DOC=FILE.PDF

[sap seeker]

Very informative link, mnguy, thank you!

[highlandcattle]

For the first few years we had one of those cage tanks, bought it for about $80.00 also. One BIG warning! Cover this sucker when not in use! The plastic deteriorates when exposed to sunlight. Ron had a full load of sap and while coming back from the woods, it blew out! Horrible loss and we went nuts! Had to call around and was lucky enough to find another producer looking to sell his older one. Tractor supply has water tanks in all sizes. We will be getting one of the 100 gallon ones to use as the feeder tank on an elevated platform for the evaporator. Good luck, keep letting people know what you're looking for and you'll be ok.

[happy thoughts]

Here is a link with all the codes and what they can be used for. A friend of mine works in the plastic industry and this is what they use.

http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_plastics/bin.asp?CID=1102&DID=4645&DOC=FILE.PDF

Yes that is a nice chart and thanks for posting it but I just want to say again that it can't help tell you if a container is actually food grade. It just tells you what material a container was made from and says nothing about it's suitability for food storage.

For instance, look at hdpe 2 in that chart . hdpe2 can be used to make containers for food and also for household cleaners. It can also be recycled into more hdpe 2 containers including buckets. Those buckets are unlikely to be food grade because some of the material it was made from may have held toxic chemicals or other impurities you don't want turning up in your syrup. These are likely to be the kind of buckets you can buy at Home Depot. Food grade hdpe 2 would be made out of only the most pure hdpe which has never come in contact with harmful contaminants.

Again, if in doubt, don't use it. No one on this board thought using an oil tank for sap storage was a good idea. Neither is using a plastic container of unknown origin. The plastic it was made from may have held much worse things than fuel oil.

[mnguy]

Happy Thoughts,

I agree with your statement if you do not know where it came from better off not using it. If you know used buckets were only used for food storage in the past I would say you are safe to use them.

I myself personally I use sap bags for collecting and store in 275 gallon totes that only had corn syrup in them.

Just thought I would post the link see so many people question the codes. I hope everyone realizes even if it says food grade that it could have been also made from materials that were used for other items than food as you stated.

[happy thoughts]

Thanks MNguy. I've slogged through more FDA guidelines for food grade containers in the last day than I ever want to see again!

here are a couple of links that may help others. They won't cause any less confusion though lol. After all, the FDA *IS* a government bureau:) Just look at the URL of that last link:o

http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodIngredientsPackaging/FoodContactSubstancesFCS/ucm093435.htm

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/FoodIngredientsandPackaging/ucm120762.htm#prec

To the best of my understanding and in general, a food grade plastic is one made from an FDA approved virgin plastic material, meaning straight from the chem plant to the bottle or bucket. Food grade plastics are also made from recyclables but again in general, they are made from prior FDA approved food containers.

Material obtained from recycled non food grade containers are sometimes used in food packaging under certain conditions. The material to be used is tested for certain contaminants and those contaminants must be shown to be below set limits. The suitability of the container for food use must either adhere to current FDA guidelines and/or undergo FDA review. Again, in general plastics made from a mix including non food grade material are sometimes approved for food use if separated from direct food contact by a barrier layer of virgin material of at least a certain thickness.

Bottom line- reusing containers for cold sap storage that held or are meant to hold human food or beverages are likely fine. Home Depot buckets, etc. probably not.

That said, I'm done with the FDA and the subject of food grade plastic:D