Surge RV-2 vacuum pump

[markcasper]

I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of a Surge RV-2 vacuum pump?

It is an old piston pump that I aquired a few months ago out of a fallen down barn. At first I thought it was a Surge SP-11. It looks pretty similar with the exact same air tank.

Does anyone know the size in terms of CFM on this one? Upon examining the pump, it had "patened September 2, 1930" cast into the side of the block. It is an OLD one and I figure maybe that this was a predecessor to the SP-11.

It spins real nice and free and does create a vacuum by hand turning it. I gave the guy $15 for it.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[markcasper]

Kevin, I forgot to mention in my PM to you about this pump. I asked the Surge guy today and he said that the sp-11 replaced this RV-2 model.

I will have to look and see if it has a patent #. On the top of the block is a screw type mechanism. I asked the surge guy about this and he said the idea of this was to reverse the pump, or make a pressure pump by turning this screw thing. Its purpose made it useful for washing. He said that it never really worked that good, hence when the sp-11 came out, that option was missing. Mark

[sbmaple]

i have a pump that fits that same description..it has that same knob on the top of .now i know what that does.the tag says surge rv type bb-2 on it .it also is mounted on small tank.i'll have check if there is any patent date or # on it

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[sbmaple]

the tag on the pump says patent pending .i didn't find any other numbers or dates on it. unless it is stamped some were in the housing under the dirt.do you have any patent numbers for comercial built sap releasers? I would like to see a detailed picture of one ,like the spout/tee plug.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[markcasper]

On the sp-11. I had the surge dealer tell me that the sp-11 has 11 CFM. So I figured that @100 taps per CFM, the pump would work for 1100 taps.

Since being on the trader, I read somewhere that you would have to cut the cfm rating in half, which would be 5.5 CFM, or 550 taps. Now I'm hearing 4.5 CFM. , wheres all the research and study?? I basically took what the surge dealer said to be true, they sold them. That CFM measurement that Surge quoted would have been with the stock pulleys and electric motor running at 1750 RPM's.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[brookledge]

Mark,
It might have 11 CFMs at an open flow rating. Which is how some manufactuers rate them. Which I think is misleading. I have a brand new vac. pump that I'm selling that has a 31CFM at open flow(0"Hg) and 14CFM @15"Hg. and about 10 CFM @20Hg.
They call it a 31CFM pump but in reality for the maple industry it is only about 10 CFM pump.
With no load you can get a great rating but as you increase the load (amount of Vac.) the CFMs drop especially above 15"Hg.
Keith

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[markcasper]

These were all good answers to my questions, but in reality it'd probably take more research and time to find the ratings on paper. I wish it were easier!

Kevin-no I have not had the time to get the US patent picture to come up. I need to download something external on my computer so that it can do that.

Here's a bit of news that I heard from my father today. It doesn't apply to sap directly but I will tell you. My dad currently has a Surge Alamo 100 rotary for use in the dairy. Prior to 1977, he now says that he had a BB-4, which was rated at 29 CFM. I originally thought that he had the SP-22.

Now I think he was confused, because remember me talking in my prior posts of the sp-11 replacing the bb-2. I would assume that the sp-22 replaced the bb-4. None-the-less, my dad claimed that the bb-4 was a bigger pump than the sp-22. He said that 1 milker bucket required 4CFM.

Now in all of the places that I aquired my sp-11's, they generally used only 2 milker buckets. So if it was rated at 11 CFM x 2 milker units, you'd still have 3 extra CFM. The sp-22 was good for 4 milker units, plus the vacuum required for the step-saver and releaser, per that is what my father ran for years as the recomendation from Surge.

My dad had another stumper. On his 100 pump, it has direct drive. Now he says they are back to the belt and pulley on the newer vacuum pumps!Remember when the belt and pulley were out and direct drive was in. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

An added bit to ponder. Practically all of my SP-11's were picked up with the original electric motor. And that was a 1HP motor with a Surge nameplate attached to it. Now I have been hearing stories on here of a 1/2 and 3/4 HP motor being used on the sp-11. I think this is too small.

I ran into a problem last spring with one of my electric motors. I contacted my electrician and he told me if I was going to replace the motor with a new one, be sure to goat least 1/4 HP BIGGER. He claims that the new motors are not at all as powerful as the ones made say 25-30 years ago and that todays ratings are not the same as those of years ago. Any truth to this?? Mark

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[markcasper]

Actually, with reguard to the electric motors. My brother used a 1 HP electric from my vacuum pump on a silage conveyer. It was pretty old and worn out. They went to town and bought a brand new 1 HP electric, when they got it on, it would not run the conveyer but 30 seconds and would kick out. I believe they burned it out and took it back and got a 1 1/2 HP to do the same as the 1 HP did before.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[sweetwoodmaple]

Wow, Kevin...thanks. I wish I would have found this before racking my brain for a week to come to the same conclusions. Should have just looked at some other releasers too, but where's the fun in that?

Anyway, I have a design (read "contraption") for using either 4" or 6" PVC pipe and fittings to construct the two tank system. Unfortunately, I'm using electric solenoid valves and an electric switch float to shut off and/or shuttle the vacuum between the two chambers (not a truly mechanical design). The other logic of dumping from tank 1 to tank 2 and from tank 2 to the collection tank is done through horizontal mounted PVC swing check valves available from McMaster or whoever.

Brian

[sbmaple]

Kevin thanks for the info and research on the releaser. i thought we might try to fabricate one but in the picture it looks kind of complicated.it would have to be all mechanical .as i'm not sure if it would be feasible to run a generator to run 3hp vacuum pump motor and a releaser?
can the sap be piped away from the releaser with a flapper on the end of the pipe a short distance to lower holding tank? i was told a mechanical releaser sits on the holding tank and sap just dumps in to it? this seems that raises the height of everthing,the releaser,the manifold .the mainlines. i have never seen a mechanical releaser in use .the pipeline operations i've been to were all electric.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[brookledge]

Come on Kevin, how are you going to sit back and "sandbag" for a while.
It's a sickness that can't be cured.
You definately do alot of research.
Keith

[sbmaple]

On the pictures of the extractor .i saw 3 or 4 pictures .i m guessing they were pictures of different stages of its operation.printed them out any way. might try some "surfin" on the us patent site too.