Mold in storage "tank"

[raiderrick]

This morning I went to dump some sap that flowed overnight, into my storage tanks (Playmate coolers), and I noticed there is black mold that formed on the walls of the cooler. One cooler is worse than the other in that one has about 4 quarter size areas of mold and the sap is clear. The other is much worse, with the mold on about 25% of the walls and the sap is just a bit cloudy.
Question is.....
Is the sap still usable or should I toss it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Kev]

I do not know for sure. but I would never consider moldy sap the same as mold on syrup. the containers need cleaned and sterilized, IMHO

[happy thoughts]

I'd toss the cloudy stuff for sure and probaly the other. For what it's worth, imho coolers may not be the best place to store sap. They'll hold the heat in if your sap wasn't really cold to begin with. How long are you holding the sap in them?

I read a funny story about a caterer and a couple thousand bucks worth of lobsters that were cooked and frozen in coolers. The lobsters spoiled because the coolers kept them from freezing. All had to be thrown out right before some fancy wedding.

[raiderrick]

The sap in the very moldy cooler has been in there since Saturday and Sunday (Holds 10 gallons of sap).
The other sap has been in the other cooler Monday though today.
I collect the sap Sunday - Friday and boil down on Saturdays.
Thanks for your opinions.

[red maples]

what you boil it will kill the bacteria creating the mold. so you can try to boil it and see what the final product is. my guess is it will be very dark and strong flavor but it you like that it should be fine.

when I sanitize my tanks I scrub or wipe them down very well with fresh water. then rinse and drain , then in a separate bucket I take about a gallon of warm water to about 1 tablespoon of bleach (which works out to be about 100ppm) and wipe down the tank. then I rinse and drain it 3 times and then wipe it dry. and I repeat this every few days depending on the weather. poly/plastics are notorious for bacteria build up!!!

[Kev]

The sap in the very moldy cooler has been in there since Saturday and Sunday (Holds 10 gallons of sap).
The other sap has been in the other cooler Monday though today.
I collect the sap Sunday - Friday and boil down on Saturdays.
Thanks for your opinions.

if you are going to keep it that long. IMHO you might want to take an old refigerator and take the doors(fridg and freezer) off make a "room" out of styofoam insulation, then store your sap in buckets in there. have the room end at the front of the fridge so that the heat from the motor and compressor are out side of the cooler. Po boys walk in cooler :D
take the light bulb out too. i do not think light "helps" sap and it is 15 watts of heat.
sometimes if I can not get to boiling when i need to. I will take 1 gal frozen water jugs and put a couple in each barrel of sap. they float due to the sap being denser than the water in the jug. that helps cool the warmest sap at the top of the barrel. do not fill the water jugs 100 percent 7/8ths full seems to work they will freeze solid without rupturing.
the frozen jug method would help your storage situation in the coolers you have. It is my opinon that plastic coolers are notorious for mold growth in the first place.

[happy thoughts]

If you're storing that long I would definitely take the suggestion to ice the sap in some way to keep it cold. If you're stuck with coolers I'd even go so far as to suggest you find some way to keep that sap cold without the sap actually coming in direct contact with the cooler. Can you pour it into clean glass gallon jars and store it that way with some ice? Our local deli is a great source of large jars.

Also, again FWIW and imho, are you sure the cooler is food grade? I know they're used for food storage but not necessarily meant for direct food contact. I'm a stickler for the small stuff like that and would check on that myself even if it meant writing the manufacturer.

[raiderrick]

Thank you all again. You all are the best!!!
I usually have a large mound of snow built around and under the coolers to keep them nice and cold. I would crack the lids open a bit at night to let the cold air hit the fluid, then I close them in the mornings.
In the mornings there is usually ice on top of the liquid. In the past week we have had 3+ inches of rain & temps above 45, so my snow pile has dimished completely. I really like the idea of floating frozen containers filled with water in the sap. That should keep the temps relatively low during the day.
I think I will toss the unclear sap in the very moldy cooler and sterilze that cooler with bleach (+ a bunch of rinses with fresh water). Then transfer the sap in the other (Barely moldy) cooler into the newly sanitized cooler and sanitize it.

[raiderrick]

Happy Thoughs - I live in NJ where nothing is easy to come by as far as sugaring goes.
I can't imagine where I would be able to get glass jars at a reasonable cost. Maybe the 5 gallon "Polland Spring" type plastic water bottles are attainable, but Home Depot charges upwards of $15.00 each for them. I get about 40 gallons of sap a week, so $120.00 for sap storage is too much. I only produce syrup as a hobby for home consumption + family.
If the coolers are not food grade, then I guess I am hurting my family. Been using them for 4 years now. God I hope this isn't an issue.

[happy thoughts]

Just a small hobby producer myself so I understand where you're coming from. We have more time than money:) The glass jars I get for free. They'd just go into the recycle bin anyway and the deli is glad to let me have them and save them the trouble of disposing if them. I'm originally from NJ so try a large supermarket with a deli or bakery. I'd start at ShopRite if there's one near you, or a Wegmans. It never hurts to ask around. I've found most people get excited that you're actually making your own syrup especially with premade food so popular nowadays. Makes me wonder how many people actually know what a home cooked meal is anymore.

I also use those big water bottles which I pick up now and then at yard sales. I've never paid more than a dollar a piece and have 4 now. Doesn't make much sense to sell them for a buck when the return deposit is $7 lol. Their loss, my gain I guess. I have my bi-tapped trees connected to tubing and run the lines into those bottles.

Anyway, a quick google check for coolers showed some varying results but most say that coolers are food grade. Now I'm going to hunt for a big gatorade cooler because they have a spout on them. That would be the cat's pj's:)

Good luck and plentiful sugaring

[Kev]

while I am using them for syrup storage in the fridge and freezer untill I can reheat and bottle. I just got a bunch of food grade icing and glazing "buckets" from my local caseys store they, have bakerys in each store to make donuts and such what not. they hold 23 pounds of icing. I am guessing 2+ gal each. with a bail :). you could use something like those. they too give them to me for free. the lids snap tite and have an o ring seal. put your sap in those and in the cooler and ice down around them.
I go to boat races in the summer and have my coffee there. I have gotten too nuts about it and started doing mochas and such too. I have found that where I spilt choc.down the inside of cooler. the by the second day I have seen a streak of mold on the plastic. one cooler I rinsed and then scrubbed down with a bleach rag. the next weekend when I started getting ready to go, the mold was back in the same pattern as the original, matching the spill. that tells me that the plastic absorbed the mocha mix I made, then spilled. the bleach only killed what was on the actual surface. short of a long term soak, nothing helped. then the cooler continued to smell like bleach for half of forever. I left it open in the sun for several days. repeated washings. and after it is closed up for a week when you open it it still smells of bleach. Now I am not going to claim that all cooler plastics are the same.
water bottles: most walmarts have gallons of water for less than a buck a gallon. ya thats still twenty bucks for 20 gal of storage. but sap you can use? priceless if you really want to make syrup and instead have to toss all your sap. if you rense them good after every use you should be able to continue reusing them for a long time.
BTW I am not trying to be judgmental, just helpfull.

[Backyard Sapman]

I went to Ace and got some plastic trash cans and washed them out real good. I keep them on the north side of the house out of the sun and never had a problem with mold. There have been times when I thought it was getting too warm out and I didn't have time to boil right away so I filled some gallon ziplock bags with ice and dropped them into the cans to keep the sap cool. Just make sure there are no holes in the bags and that they are sealed tight so you don't add more water to your sap as the ice melts. It seamed to work well as the sap didn't get cloudy.

[maple flats]

Be careful using trash cans, they are made from recycled plastics and you have no idea what the plastic's previous life was. Use something rated for food, or for potable water.

[BobU]

Our sap storage tanks are bulk tanks from milking operations. Stainless steel, insulated, easy to clean, last forever. Put the sap in good and cold, and it will stay cold awhile. Guess we are lucky living in Wisc bulk tanks can be found for a "short money" price (sometimes?).
We have done the frozen "sap cubes" trick a few times, freezing sap in food grade buckets and "popping" them into the tanks to help to keep the sap cold with no water being added.
The bulk tanks are also a good place to store the "syrupin" stuff in the off season, clean, dry, mouse and bug proof.
Good luck on your sap storage in the future, Tap lots!!:D

[raiderrick]

Well I ultimately dumped the sap in the cooler with the most mold and scrubbed it down well with a little bleach/water mixture and rinsed extensively. There was no smell of bleach when I was finished. Then I dumped the sap from the other cooler into the just cleaned cooler, and cleaned that one in the same manner. Over the next few days I was able to fill that one up with sap from the trees. No new mold formed (I know it was just a couple of days) before I was able to boil it down. I did freeze 1 gallon ziplock bags filled half way with water and placed them in with the sap. 1 bag per cooler. This kept everything nice & cool. The ice lasted about 14 hours each time I put it in.
I am done for the season. There hasn't been a sap flow in 3 days and temps are expect to rise into the 70s by Friday.
A good season overall with just under 3 gallons of syrup made - enough for everyone!
Thank you all for your help in this matter, as well as all of your other postings on this website. It is priceless to me as well as others I am sure.

[TF Maple]

If you use bags of ice to cool the sap, it uses up space in the coolers. I would freeze sap and put the frozen sap in the coolers. Then all the storage space is holding sap.

[raiderrick]

Good point TF Maple. I will do that next year.

[Backyard Sapman]

That is a good idea. The reason that I had used Regular ice is I realized the sap was getting too warm and I wanted to get it cooled down as quick as possible and didn't want to wait for sap to freeze. But Tf has the right idea.

[wildacres]

Hi there -

I really think you're fighting a losing battle. As much as I hate to say it,
that stuff is likely to spoil unless you can keep it near frozen or maybe even
partially frozen - four or five days is a long time!. Kinda' stinks when you have a full time job and commitments in the evening, but there it is. I have tossed 400 gallons out of 1500 collected this year because, after maybe 2 days, it had either spoiled or was going to if I didn't use it that day. Ah well...

Paul