Very Dark Syrup Help

[pamaple]

So I just got back from taking 30 gals of syrup to henry. He pays me $1.50/lb and says its grade C syrup. :( whats up with this? I have noticed the syrup seems really dark but I didnt think it was that dark. What is causing my syrup to be dark? I bought a new hydrometer thinking maybe mine was bad but when I got back and tested what we are boiling now with the old one they read exactly the same. Any ideas on whats going wrong? I wont make any money at this rate, and not have any decent syrup.

[500592]

first what kind of evaporator do you have because if you have divied one you may be pulling off to much at one time or you sap may have spoiled and lastly if you have a pan that you just keep adding then you should fill it once and finish it then repeat till you have no sap left

[Meridian Maples]

There's many reasons that syrup can be dark.
1. Sap has been sitting around too long.
2. Sap temperature is warm.
3. Dirty tanks, tubing etc.
4. Long cooking time
5. High bacteria count in sap
6. dirty sap (not filtered)
7. pans may need cleaning

Last year was a warmer year by us and it seemed most people ended up making darker syrup because of slow runs, and higher bacterial levels in sap.
What is the temperature of the sap before you are running it into your evaporator? Is the sap cloudy?
Is your tubing older, and is it cleaned yearly?
The best way to make light syrup is to have fresh cold sap, clean equipement, and boil it off as fast as you can.

[pamaple]

ok the sap is not sitting very long maybe 6-8hrs max. the lines were all bought brand new last year. What sould I be doing to filter the sap? And how do I check the sap for bacteria? The pans were cleaned shiny as new 2 weeks ago before we started and I have only made 150 gal of dark syrup. The cooking time doesnt seem that long from what I did last year and had a lot of nice syrup. The tanks are all cleaned as often as they are emptied and are either stainless steel or the white plastic tanks.(1100gl, 425gl)

[Meridian Maples]

Is the sap cloudy, or crystal clear? Is the sap temperature in the 30's or higher? I've found that if the sap temp is above 40 degrees my syrup would get darker. I run my sap through an RO so it is filtered through that, but I know some guys use pool filters or even orlon.
Is your sugar content low?
One down fall with tubing is the temperature of the sap can get elevated, especially with black main lines. Once bacteria starts growing in the tubing your sap quality is going to go down.
We used to use zero vacuum tanks with vacuum, with the enclosed tank the sap temps would go up and we would end up with cloudy sap because bacteria was growing more rapidly with the higher temps.
We went to mechanical releasers and open tanks and temps stayed cooler and sap quality seems to be better.
Last year was the first year in 3 years we made any grade C syrup, and I feel the biggest factor was the temperature of the sap, because it got warm too fast, and we weren't getting the cold temps at night.

[Mountain Winds Farm]

What was the sugar content of the sap ? If you are cooking 1 % sap it probably will take longer to cook which seems to make it darker also.We cooked off our first run here over the weekend .It came out around a B grade and the sugar was about 1% going into the flue pan all weekend. Hopefully this next warmup will change that.

[pamaple]

well I just checked the sap in the tank running into the evaporator is 51 degrees. I am using a 3x12 king leader evaporator with 12ft drop flu pan. it has an auto feed system on the side that automatically adds water. I take about 1 gal off at a time and check each time before i open the valve with the hydrometer.

[pamaple]

apx 1.7% sugar for the sap.

[Sugarmaker]

Pamaple,
Did you miss type that you have a 12 foot drop flue pan on a 12 foot arch?
Are your trees soft maple or hard maple.
You must be in the Somerset area only place I ever heard sap called water:)
Regards,
Chris

[pamaple]

no sorry missed typed its a 7ft drop flu pan. Mostly hard wood trees. I have to thank smith's maple. he just stopped by to have a look and said everything seems to look good to him except that he doesnt think we are firing it hard enough and need a bigger blower. I have a small blower or should say a very small blower so tomorrow I will make a trip to town and get something going with that, and reply back with the results.

[3rdgen.maple]

Your setup sounds pretty good to me and your sap handling does as well. First thing I would do I get a grade kit and grade your syrup and see if it was actually C or not. Grade C is mersh and has an off flavor. Worse case I would think you had B but only you could know that. I am suprised that you only draw off a gallon at a time on a 3x12 cause that is what I get on my 2x6. Are you drawing off more than once an hour at that amount? Just cause you might be firing it slow and not at ideal temps I cannot see how you are making grade C in the begining of the season unless you tapped into some swamp water.

[Rossell's Sugar Camp]

My cousin up in somerset calls it water. I always do too. Always have. And i hope your problems are solved with a larger blower PA Maple.

[Southtowns27]

What level are you running in the pans? When the rig is up to temp and boiling, does it boil like a pot on the stove, or does the boiling sap spill out of the rig?

[pamaple]

The sap level in the pan is 2" I have not taken any syrup off since 3 or 4 this afternoon and have been boiling non stop. It gets close to 7 but as soon as I open the doors to fire it drops down. I tried feeding one side at a time and I tried opening one door throwing in a piece or two and closing the door to keep the temps up but that doesnt seem to be working either. I am about ready to just sell the sap and forget about it. Anybody close by want it?

[3rdgen.maple]

Dont give up. Are you letting the fire die down alot before firing it? Every few minutes throw wood in it. I dont let mine get below 2/3 full and fire about every 6 minutes. Another thing I have seen on some drop flue rigs is that where the float box for incoming sap enters the flue pan, if its a direct path in the pan without a 90 degree facing the back the sap has a tendency to push back in the float box and raise the float and giving it a false reading. Then when you open the doors the boil dies, the sap rushes back in the pan and the float drops and feeds alot of sap in at once and kills the gradient in the pans. I ran across this with mine and had the exact same problem. I would draw off once then it would be hours before I could get another draw. I put in a 90 degree elbow in the pan coming out the float box and problem was solved. I drew off every hour consistantly from that point forward.

[gmcooper]

I have a King 3x10 and have no problem with the boil causing a surge into the float box. THe (King) models had an issue with float box intake in the late 80's but I think they rebuilt many no charge. They did our old 2 1/2 x8. With that 3x12 it's going to eat up a bunch of good dry wood to keep a steady boil going. Crappy wood will not keep a good even boil. As said fire on a schedule. If the fire dies down much it will create mixing in the pans and will make things tough to run well. I never run any where near 2" deep. I'm usually closer to 3/4".

[Southtowns27]

2" is WAYYY too deep. I ran my drop flue between 3/4 and 1 inch. Drop your levels! Just be sure to use defoamer. It also sounds like you have a firing issue. The firebox should never be less than 1/2 full. Fire one side at a time a few minutes apart. Your wood HAS to be dry or you might as well be pushing an elephant up the stairs. What size is your wood? How big/tall is your smokestack? Something seems wrong that your boil dies off when you fire, but it might be because you have so much liquid in the pans. I'm boiling off 75 gal/hour on a 2.5x8 so that equates to dang near 2 gal of finished syrup an hour. Somethin' ain't right.
Just had an afterthough... is your rig reversible? If it is, do you have the correct side of the flue pan plugged?
Hang in there, we'll get it figured out

[3rdgen.maple]

I can hear the next post from pamaple, I lowered the level in my pans and burnt them up. Okay that wasnt funny sorry. But I run my flue pan so it barely covers the flue which gives me about 1/2 to 3/4 in the syrup pan. But Regardless of what depth hes running he shouldnt be drawing off so little and so far apart. I watched my dad boil for me last night and he likes to take his time thats for sure and I watch the boil in the pans just about disappear. He has always fired like that and it was okay with an old flat pan setup and just cant grasp the concept that you need to speed fire the rig so it maintains a constant boil. So I can see why this happens to others as well. Get that wood nice and ready close to the doors as possible and ready to go once one door is open. Stick that wood in there as fast as you would pull your hand out of a burning fire. close the door give it a minute and repeat the other side. Sit down relax for a couple minutes and do it again lol. And people think this is easy.

[pamaple]

well I dang near burnt it all up. I lowered the level in the pan and it just went freakin crazy on me I drew about 10 gal of syrup off and it wasnt running in from the back pan fast enough. and now I am out of water. so I get to clean it all out and start fresh later today since its 1:30am.

[3rdgen.maple]

I knew that was coming. You must get comfortable with your rig before you consider lowering your sap levels. Glad to hear it almost burnt up and It didnt though. I say take a day off and recollect yourself from all that fustration and have a go at it again. Get your sap level back up to where you are more comfortable and tweek it from there. Boiling for that long without a draw off was leading to a huge draw and I was a little concerned and wish for your sake I was a little more clear on my last post not to lower your level just quite yet.

[Kev]

Big changes are tougher to manage. things just happen different, along with quicker. at least on the unit I am using (but remember I am FAR from an expert! more like simi competent filter washer :-|
a pan of sweet sap sitting there to use in an "oh stuff" moment can do wonders for both your pan and your blood pressure.

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

Hopefully cleaning out your pans helps. My sugar content is low too but I run it through an RO. I have made almost all medium, some fancy, some dark amber. I would clean your tanks too, and with clean pans see what happens. I have increased grade a lot of times by doing this.

[Southtowns27]

Glad you didn't burn your pans up, but it sounds like that was the issue. Next time you boil, start out at a lower level and it will be much easier to manage. Once you get the gradient established in the front pan, you will have small regular drawoffs rather than a giant batch (what just happened to you).