off taste

[tbear]

Hi,
I've been making syrup for 6 or 7 years. I tap soft maple trees (25-50 taps) not sugar maple ...the soft maples grow here. The sap is collected in aluminum buckets and stored in coolers. I boil in batches outside using a home made "evaporater" then finish the syrup off inside on the stove. The "pre-syrup" looks good, smells good, tastes good. The problem arises as I'm finishing it off. It takes most of the day to do this and right up till the last one or two hours it looks good, smells good and tastes good...then it takes on an unpleasant "off" taste. I use a hygromiter(?) and filter through an orlon (?) filter coupled with a felt filter. The felt filter gets washed in the washing machine and line dried outside. As I said I've been doing this for 6 or 7 years and have as yet to end up with a product that I can use. I guess I'm nothing if not determined! Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong? Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

[3rdgen.maple]

Could just be your cleaning process of your filters. Hot hot water is plenty to clean them. Washing them in the washing machine could lead you to a soap tasting filter. Try it this way. Take samples of your syrup during the whole process from start to finish. When you get to this point in tasting.(the last sample before filtering tasted good and the sample after not so good) you can trace back what you did between those sample and eliminate the problem. Also curious if you have tasted anyone elses homemade syrup to compare flavors with. They vary from place to place but should be similiar.

[Southtowns27]

Can you describe the off flavor? Is it possible that you're scorching the stuff as you get near to the end? How big is your final batch? What does it look like as it's boiling and as you filter it? Try to give us more info.

[highlandcattle]

I'll stick my nose in . My husband has done this since he was a kid, on an old dairy farm with just what was lying around. We got this place in 1996 and have had to work our way thorough all the steps because of time and money(lack of)started with orlon and wool filters. Went with a Wesfab filter press a couple of years ago and that's been well worth it. Oh, yeah, filter aid, try some of that, FOOD grade. There are probably several things that are getting you the funny flavors. I'll try my ideas, the aluminum buckets, check them for leaching, rust, etc., then the storing, sap doesn't like to sit around, goes bad real quick, washing the filters in the washer, oh NO, hot water only, the longer the sap sits finishing, the worse the grade and taste, it picks up the flavors of the room and if on a woodstove, the woodstove if it smokes. Anything that you use to touch it like stirring should be stainless steel only. Anything that sap touches should be stainless steel anyway. it's a food product. We have been on a long learning curve. Check out Cornell's site for more help. I also don't know anything about soft maples, we have all sugar maples around here.. keep trying!

[tbear]

thanks for the quick replies! The off-taste is kinda hard to describe...it's a smokey/carmely/burnt plastic kind of taste. That's not quite right but as close as I can call it. The bad taste starts while finishing in the kitchen..I'll say about half way to syrup. That's where I start to notice it...it continues to get more pronounced as the finishing goes along. I end up at the end of the day with between one to two gallons of syrup. Could this off taste originate outside over the wood fire? Then as the sap is reduced to syrup the bad taste becomes more concentrated? Just shooting in the dark here. I just read a thread that said to fill the pan, boil it down, finish it off, and start over again. It seems that would reduce the time the sap would have to be exposed to any fire/smoke born contaminates. Currently I keep adding sap till it's gone then start the finishing process. I've only talked to one other guy who makes syrup around here...met him in a coffee shop in the county seat (the big city). That was several years ago...not sure if he's still into it or how to get a hold of him. So much for local samples. I hope this helps to clarify the problem...thanks again.

[brookledge]

What type of pan/pot are you boiling it in to finish it off? Something is happening after you bring it in. If the off flavor is not present when you draw off from the evaporator then it is after you draw off. The off flavor might not be quite as pronounced but should still be there.
Try taking a small amount and finish it in a different pan even if it is only a cup full then taste it and if you off flavor is still there you can eliminate the pan used to finish it.
Aluminum can give syrup a bad off taste that is why I was wondering
Keith

[Ausable]

Howdy -- 3rdgenmaple -- Has already mentioned this and I'll repeat it. Don't Wash Your Filters in the Family washing machine. All kinds of nasty stuff has passed thru the washer -- Yep I know --- Liquid Laundry Soap, Bleach etc. is supposed to kill all the nasties - But - the concern is the taste of the maple syrup. As already stated wash Your filters in very hot water only and in a stainless pot - if You have one. -- Hey --- Years ago during cleanup - at the end on the season - I tossed a dirty felt filter in my favorite aluminum pot with the attention of washing it out - it got set up on a shelf and forgotten about - following year when I got the pot down - the sugars in the dirty filter had eaten a large hole in the bottom of the aluminum pot -- all my fault.... But now i'm a little leary of using Aluminum.......Hope you find out what is causing your problem --- Mike

[Southtowns27]

The burnt flavor leads me to believe you're scorching the syrup. How big of a pot are you using to finish it? A gallon of syrup in a large pot leaves a very shallow level. Do you use any defoamer of any kind? I wonder if the near finished syrup is foaming excessively thus drying out the pot and burning the sugar. What's it smell like as you're finishing?

[Kev]

the plasticish taste you tacked on at the end makes me wonder about a teflon pan?

[3rdgen.maple]

Yeah Im thinking its something in the way of putting hot syrup off the evaporator into something plastic to carry it in to boil on the stove. Or using a plastic spoon to stir your syrup. A plastic taste only comes from one source, plastic.

[tbear]

Well...you were right on! I finished a batch yesterday (about 2 gal.) using no plastic at all, filtering it through new orlon filters and it tastes pretty good! I never would have thought that putting hot syrup into a plastic bucket to carry to the house then using a plastic (tupperware) bowl to filter the hot finished syrup into could have made that much differance! Thank you all so much! Ted

[adk1]

Well...you were right on! I finished a batch yesterday (about 2 gal.) using no plastic at all, filtering it through new orlon filters and it tastes pretty good! I never would have thought that putting hot syrup into a plastic bucket to carry to the house then using a plastic (tupperware) bowl to filter the hot finished syrup into could have made that much differance! Thank you all so much! Ted

Oh yeah it does, particularly when it is hot. Hence the reason why all draw off pails are only stainless steel! I was also going to mention to not use a plastic spoon if you are stirring the syrup on the stove. I would use a SS spoon.

[tbear]

I'd like to say thank you again. I thought I was all alone in my endeavers to make some syrup. Anyone know where I might be able to get a stainless steel draw off pail..and other stainless steel items? I've definitly learned my lesson! The company I've been using for things is in Canada and it's terrible expensive to ship from there. Thanks again, Ted

[Mountain Winds Farm]

Farmtek has stainless pails

[danno]

Tractor Supply has stainless pails, but I'm looking for the kind that have the pour lip and bottom handle.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/pet-care/pet-feeders-waterers-bowls/pet-food-bowls/spot-standard-pail-16-qt--2408440

[ComputerSteve]

HELP!!

This thread has me worried. Last year we only had 10 taps and finished off each batch of sap to syrup every time we collected. This year we have 37 taps and had been planning on boiling the sap after each collection almost down to finished syrup, then freezing the batches in 5 gallon plastic buckets to finish all together at the end.

It sounds like pouring hot sap/syrup into plastic buckets is a bad idea. What can we store the almost finished syrup in until the end, or should we be finishing each batch individually right away?

Sap is flowing and we already boiled down the first batch and stored in a plastic bucket. I want to get this right and not waste all the sap by making a stupid mistake.

[Rossell's Sugar Camp]

5 gallon buckets from lowes work fine. Or go to a bakery and ask them for buckets they buy dough in if they dont make it there.

Plastic buckets will not contaminate the syrup even if it goes in hot. Dont worry

[ackerman75]

Seams to me we bottle syrup in plastic bottles when we sell it......should be fine.

[maplematt]

Well, that's great to hear, since computersteve is my dad, thanks Rossell! We are using frosting buckets from bakeries. Any idea why the other guy got an off flavor then? Is there any type of plastic that is better? Anyone else have suggestions for other storage containers?

[maplematt]

That was our original reasoning Jamie...then we read this post. Maybe we'll just let it cool a bit and then freeze it in the buckets!

[KenWP]

I'd like to say thank you again. I thought I was all alone in my endeavers to make some syrup. Anyone know where I might be able to get a stainless steel draw off pail..and other stainless steel items? I've definitly learned my lesson! The company I've been using for things is in Canada and it's terrible expensive to ship from there. Thanks again, Ted

Why not use plain old SS pots.They are cheap and work well.

[Rossell's Sugar Camp]

Stainless steel pots is a good idea too. But I use lowes buckets. No off taste. at all. And they do not need to be frozen. Just in a cool room. Bacteria has a hard time growing in syrup of a higher sugar content. just dont let it set for more than a week without being refrigerated.

[Brent]

I you have to use plastic, look on the bottom for the letters HDPE. This is high density plastic that can be used to hot pack syrup ( or move it to the kitchen )

[3rdgen.maple]

Okay heres the deal. Hot liquid in plasti is a bad bad idea unless the plastic, like sugarhill jugs is rated for HIGH temps, if not it will either melt or give your syrup a plastic flavor or both. I highly recomend using the right equipment for the job at hand. If you are storing or freezing syrup in plastic not rated for high temps I strongly suggest you let it cool before adding it to the container. This thread started out with a guy having a plastic tasting end product and he scratched his head and asked us for help. It came down to him using to different sources of plastic for two different jobs at hand. Another example for you is a few years back I had this 2 gallon plastic theromos that indeed was made for ( as the lable said) for hot beverages and soup. Well I had a banner day and was exhausted and after filling my drawoff pail, finisher and bottler full of syrup I had one more drawoff and was planning on running the sap out and filtering and bottling the next day. I remembered that thermos and put my last draw in it. Well it melted and was so distorted I couldnt screw the lid back on and the syrup in it tasted like plastic. So make sure before you are willing to take a chance and ruining the syrup you just spent 10 and 1/2 months working and preparing for to be ruined.

[3rdgen.maple]

I'd like to say thank you again. I thought I was all alone in my endeavers to make some syrup. Anyone know where I might be able to get a stainless steel draw off pail..and other stainless steel items? I've definitly learned my lesson! The company I've been using for things is in Canada and it's terrible expensive to ship from there. Thanks again, Ted

You are welcome! I would head to Wally world and grab some stainless steel pots. Grab a couple they are not that bad in price. They got handles and lids and gets the job done. If you look hard enough I have seen some in the grocery store that look perfet to slip a cone filter in for filtering too.

[maplematt]

Well, I guess if there are people who have had bad outcomes with plastic, I don't think I want to risk it. I think I'm making a trip to Wally World to look for some cheap SS pots.

[3rdgen.maple]

Or just drive over to Haynes place and "borrow" some of his stuff before he gets there friday.lol I think personally you are making a wise choice. There is one other option as far as plastic goes and hot syrup and I do use these on an occassion. I get a couple blue plastic syrup jugs from Bascoms that are made for hot paking syrup in. I think they are 11 bucks each. Like I said before just make sure if you are using plasti it is made to hold up to the temps.

[tbear]

Since the topic is plastic and I want to produce the best syrup I can (obviously) let me ask...I'm currently using several 10 and 15 gal coolers to store the raw sap in. Is this a bad idea?

[3rdgen.maple]

This question came up a few weeks ago and I have never looked into the plastic in them and if they are safe for liquid contact or not but someone did say they were not. Turn the coolers over and look on the bottom for the type of plastic it is and search the web to get the answer. I would think they would be but until I looked and confirmed it I wouldnt use anything in question.

[Brent]

Tbear it depends on what plastic it is made of. Check the bottom or contact the manufacturer.

[tbear]

Just so everyone who cares knows...Coleman coolers contain no BPA (bad stuff) and are made of a polyethelyn(?) plastic which the FDA has approved for food safty. So? Does anyone think it will give the cold sap a bad taste?

[adk1]

Just so everyone who cares knows...Coleman coolers contain no BPA (bad stuff) and are made of a polyethelyn(?) plastic which the FDA has approved for food safty. So? Does anyone think it will give the cold sap a bad taste?

Just because it is safe doesnt mean it wont impart an off flavor. SS is or glass is the only materials that I would trust to not impart an off flavor.

[Brent]

And just because is is polyethylene does not make it food safe. I think it must be HDPE - high density polyethylene,
but that alone, I don't think makes it safe. Ask Coleman if it is FDA approved for "direct conact" with food.

[500592]

my syrup had an off flavor when i had a really smoky fire and that gives it a bad taste

[maplematt]

When people use tubing to gather their sap, what kind of plastic is it, and where do you purchase it?

[ComputerSteve]

Thanks to everyone for their comments on putting hot syrup into the 5 gallon plastic bakery buckets to freeze for later finishing. I'm not rich enough to purchase a stainless steel barrel, so we're just going to cool the sap before putting into the plastic bucket for freezing. This is an area to mark down for improvement next year.