Neighbors tapped my trees, now what?

[prattsap]

Bought property 4 years ago, neighbor already had sap lines run, through previous owner, on my property. I noticed that he hadn't sapped in a few years and the taps had been left in trees for at least 3 years. He eventually pulled taps out. He has not sapped since and all lines are still up. The past 2 years I have tapped my trees running new lines and backyard boiling 3 gal syrup every year. I love it. I go to tap this year and neighbor has already tapped my trees to his lines. It is a 300 tap operation, 90 % of the taps are my trees, and we are not talking border trees here. I am new to the trade and might be missing an unwritten rule. I am looking for any insight before I hop in the truck and go INTRODUCE myself!!

[Revi]

I would definitely talk to the guy. I had some land and the people next to me tapped some of my trees. I told them it was okay if they asked me first. If it bothers you, talk to the guy. It's your land. I'd be nice but firm about it. Say that you know that there was a tradition, etc, but that you are going to be using them now. He wants to be on your good side. If nothing else, he could give you some syrup made with the trees that you can't get to.

[Maple Hobo]

Its your property, prior agreements are not your's to fulfill.
Try talking nice to them first.

If not, I think its trespassing and all related legal rights for damages and lost revinue apply for your 3 gallons of possible syrup... about 150 ($50 /gallon) on the low end to 300 ($100/gallon) for the syrup alone.

[jmayerl]

WOW.......Now thats ballzy! If it were me I would make sure the boundrys are clearly marked with stakes every 50 yards or so. Then cut his tubing off at the property line and use it for myself. Why take it down if its already on YOUR property. Not sure how things work by you but here by us we can't even track a wounded deer onto some peoples property. I wish everyone was more nice about these things but around here they arn't. He obviously knows that he is not on his own land. Best case I would tell him to get all his stuff off your land in the next day since you want to tap, then make him pay a trespass fee of a few gallons of syrup.

[3rdgen.maple]

I would make sure he is aware you are the new property owner before I let him have it. Could be just a lack of info on his part. Either way after its cleared up and he removes his stuff I wouldnt ask for anything in exchange for trespassing. Look at it this way he already saved you some time for drilling the holes for you lol.

[Timber Juice]

I noticed that he hadn't sapped in a few years and the taps had been left in trees for at least 3 years. He eventually pulled taps out.

The taps were still in the trees?
Not good for the trees at all.
Was that 3 yrs at the time you bought the place 4 yrs ago?
I'd have pulled them myself.

Sounds like maybe the original tapper died or something, now the helpers are seeing dollar signs.

That many taps would produce alot more syrup than you have already, and would fund your own sugar shack very nicely.

Everything is on your side.
They showed no respect for the health of someone elses trees, abandoned the equipment on private property, it is no longer their tubing, and wasn't when they trespassed and hooked it up to their operation again.

Be nice, as they say, but expect to hear alot of "I didn't know", "I didn't realize", "No one said we couldn't".

Inspect the taps closely. Did they over-tap? Too small of tree?
They may be hard up for money to get by just for this year, not thinking about long term, so don't care.

I feel for you, makes me boil thinking about it.
I would most likely overreact and buy tubing and cut & splice, thankyou.
They're your neighbors so be more diplomatic than I would be.

Goodluck

[paul]

Prattsap

check your deed before doing anything.In the state of Vermont when you sign a sugaring lease it goes on file with you deed because there is a section that says something about carrying over If property is sold.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Wait till you find out he is selling the sap and doesn't Boil himself:mad:

[BobU]

Sounds like another case of someone thinking it's easier to "Beg for forgiveness than ask for permission".
It was mentioned in a earlier post that maybe the original tapper had past on, these new tappers may just be thinking "Who's going to know".
As Timber Juice said earlier, be nicer than I would be, they may be your neighbors for a long time.
Good luck, Hope all turns out well.

[Big_Eddy]

I have to think it is a misunderstanding. I'd go introduce myself and politely ask if he realizes that the trees he has tapped are on your property. If the answer is no - then it's a good time to go and take a walk together and agree on where the actual property boundary is.

If his answer is yes, then I'd bet that it's because you left his lines up on your property for the past 4 years which he took as a sign that you don't have an issue with his continuing to tap those trees. I'd have a chat about neighbourly behavior and asking first.

Given that you are boiling 3 gals a year (<10 trees?) and he is tapping 300, I'd let him leave things up for the season for some consideration, and tap another 10 myself. Any harm to the trees is already done.

This is one of those situations that could be laughed at for years, or that could start a lifelong fued. I don't know if this is a vacation property or your year round dwelling, but either way, it's best to have him on your side. You never know - he may have a spare evaporator that he might be willing to loan you.

[Kev]

I have to think it is a misunderstanding. I'd go introduce myself and politely ask if he realizes that the trees he has tapped are on your property. If the answer is no - then it's a good time to go and take a walk together and agree on where the actual property boundary is.

If his answer is yes, then I'd bet that it's because you left his lines up on your property for the past 4 years which he took as a sign that you don't have an issue with his continuing to tap those trees. I'd have a chat about neighbourly behavior and asking first.

Given that you are boiling 3 gals a year (<10 trees?) and he is tapping 300, I'd let him leave things up for the season for some consideration, and tap another 10 myself. Any harm to the trees is already done.

This is one of those situations that could be laughed at for years, or that could start a lifelong fued. I don't know if this is a vacation property or your year round dwelling, but either way, it's best to have him on your side. You never know - he may have a spare evaporator that he might be willing to loan you.

wise advice in my opinion.

[NH/Pete]

Anyone on here know who the trespasser is? Might be easier to talk to them with someone that already knows who they are.

300 taps is more than a back yard tapper.

[bobbyjake]

First question - is your neighbor on Maple Trader and reading this as we speak.... If so, they probably feel like they have egg on their face right now. No respectful sugarmaker would knowingly do this.

Second question - were you tapping all of the 90% of the 300 on your land for backyard use? Where's the tank set-up? Was it clear that the lines had been changed/manipulated from your use?

You've owned this property for four years and don't know your neighbors - shame on you!!! Especially when they had the taps set up on your property - allbeit neglected. For that matter, you should have gone to visit them before you messed with their lines.

That said, it doesn't give them the right to run all over our property.

It does sound like just a big ooops. Go down and talk to them. Be respectful but matter-of-fact. If you are just backyarding it, you can probably work something out where no ones nose gets out of joint.

[3rdgen.maple]

I think the neighbor beat him up. He hasnt replied to any ideas or an update us since he started the thread. So that makes me wonder whos bad advice got him in a jam LOL.

[JuniperHillSugar]

This sounds like a form or timber trespass as defined in Law here in the State of Maine. I don't know how it is viewed in VT, but probably the same. I would repeat that the owner should really take a close at their boundaries to make sure they are correct. I'm a Land Surveyor and I have seen plenty of situations where there was a big error in assuming where the boundaries are.

Some years ago my dad discovered that a neighbor had dug a small gravel pit on his land. They originally disagreed about the boundary location, so my dad told the neighbor that he should stop digging right away, until the boundary was surveyed. When the survey was complete it was clearly my family's land. We have since become friends with the neighbor, it was just an honest mistake.

I'd try the neighborly approach first, and if there is still resistence, I think the law should be on your side.

[spud]

I would do what BIG EDDY said. The two of you could wind up being the best of friends and helping each other out in the future. :)

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

in VT the land rights of every thing are up for grabs, mineral rights, timber rights, sugaring rights, thats one of the first things I did when checking on a piece of property. Go check the deed first, but when you bought it your lawyer should have done that for you.

[prattsap]

O.K. Here I am, Thank you everyone! I am building a small farm to help raise the kids and earn a little extra cash when the work is slow. I raise pork, eggs, berries, apples, and veggies. Since the neighbor has the sugarhouse and no sugarbush(even has to buy the wood)and I have the sugarbush and no sugarhouse, yet, and since it takes me 12 hrs to boil 1 gal syrup in the backyard, I think I will go down and offer to help boil in exchange for syrup and friendship. Who knows I might have a sugarhouse sooner than I think.

[Haynes Forest Products]

In Colorado if you give someone permission to use your land then you have the option to ask them to stop. If someone uses your property without permission and you dint stop them then they can claim Eminent Domain after a determined amout of time.
In Wisconsin The county moved the road over 10' and didn't let anyone know that the deeds changed and now My frontage property along the road was now my neighbors across the road. BUT and I say BUT because I had two roads and have mowed and maintained his property It is now mine. My two neighbors on my side of the road were not so lucky because they didn't have roads and didn't maintain any roadside they were land locked. Had to buy the 10' strip.
I would explaine to the neighbor that they need to stop using the trees and land and that they can either rent the land starting Right now or remove all their property within hrs. I would have a lease drawn up for them to sign on the spot. Even if the lease is for $1.00 per tap. Any roads they build on you land can become theirs

[morningstarfarm]

now that is a very logical response..I just picked up 2 new guys that I know from the local fire dept...from a call to my "burning" sugar house...they both got bitten by the bug..but have nowhere to boil...they bring their sap to me to boil...but..and this is the good part...in exchange they are providing me with all the processed wood that the 3 of us will need...FREE...I also get 2 guys to spell me in the shack..once they learn and get comfortable running the evap...all that from a fire call...you could very well end up set for the near future...and make a new bud to share the addiction with..:)

[maple flats]

Morningstar, be careful. If they are firemen and are spelling you, what happens if the fire siron sounds? Do they run to work the fire or do they stay until you return?

[70 Buick]

O.K. Here I am, Thank you everyone! I am building a small farm to help raise the kids and earn a little extra cash when the work is slow. I raise pork, eggs, berries, apples, and veggies. Since the neighbor has the sugarhouse and no sugarbush(even has to buy the wood)and I have the sugarbush and no sugarhouse, yet, and since it takes me 12 hrs to boil 1 gal syrup in the backyard, I think I will go down and offer to help boil in exchange for syrup and friendship. Who knows I might have a sugarhouse sooner than I think.

Good choice
you can never have enough freinds
let us know how it turns out

[elm creek guy]

Does your sugar shack have a basement? if it does they woodnt have to go far to save it! sorry couldnt leave that one alone. Interested in this tapping meeting result though best of luck. Ole

[mike z]

Good neighbors are as valuable as good syrup. That goes double for a syrup making neighbor. I would start down the friendly road, it's hard to come back once started down the other.

[prattsap]

Well I just took a stroll over to the neighbors to help with the sugarin on one of the best wknds of the year and :mad: There are cobwebbs in the evaporator, no collection tanks outside, and the sap is pouring out of the line onto the ground. Been that way since beginning of the season:mad::mad::mad:

[BryanEx]

Ya gotta wonder at times BUT you no longer have to worry about affecting someone else's living. Cut all lines at the property line and plug 'em into your system.

[TapME]

Well I just took a stroll over to the neighbors to help with the sugarin on one of the best wknds of the year and :mad: There are cobwebbs in the evaporator, no collection tanks outside, and the sap is pouring out of the line onto the ground. Been that way since beginning of the season:mad::mad::mad:

Makes you wonder who was doing the tapping.

[3rdgen.maple]

Why have you waited this long to go over there?

[Kev]

I woulda been awful tempted to clean up their stuff and turn my sap into syrup since they are not...

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Does your sugar shack have a basement? if it does they woodnt have to go far to save it! sorry couldnt leave that one alone. Interested in this tapping meeting result though best of luck. Ole

Previously VT State Level 2 Certified Nationally recognized with so many hours of training it would make some people question whether I was a volley or FT'er.
I would rather save 1000 cellars than pull one DEAD 5 year old from a structure (Personal experience) Sorry but you hit a nerve on that one.

[maple6275]

Wow that's crazy. But, maybe this will work out better for you. Obviously the neighbor could care less about sugaring. Or perhaps the neighbor's property is now owned by someone new who doesn't know/care about the old setup. Either way, go talk to 'em and offer pennies on the dollar of all the evap equipment, and move it to your land. It'd be a great addition to the farm!

[Gary R]

I would have looked into this before I bought the property. Check the deed thing. All states are different. Here in PA you would be held liable for damaging someones else s property on your land. If someone parks a vehicle on your land is it yours to take? Not in PA. Call the police first, they will confront the owner. Best of luck with your situation.

[happy thoughts]

OMG I would be hot enough to boil off a couple of gallons of syrup on my head alone:(

If there's ever a next time, do a quick background check. Ask what their MapleTrader.com forum name is. This is as honest and respectful a bunch of people as I've ever come across. If they've posted here, they'll probably treat you and your property with respect.

[Big_Eddy]

Okay - so what happened in the end? We're all curious!

[TimJ]

... then they can claim Eminent Domain after a determined amout of time.
...

I think you mean "adverse possession." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession)