Wash solution in concentrate - ugh!

[danno]

I have got to put a sign next to my concentrate/wash valve to TURN THE VALVE TO WASH!

I've almost done it every time I've concentrated, but caught it just in time. Not so lucky today - dumped about 10 gallons of wash solution/permeate into 200 gallons of concentrate in my head tank. Thankfully, I had not started to boil.

So, what's in alkaline wash solution? The wash solution was just coming out of the RO so was quite diluted with permeate. I'm assuming I'm dumping the concentrate?

[Brent]

Most are plain sodium hydroxide.
Bummer.

[SWEETSAP]

Most likely it is sodium hydroxide with or without another base. The best you could do is to add some acid to bring the ph back to the ph of regular sap. Citric acid would do the job but hcl (muratic acid) also known as stomach acid may be better. If you don't have ph paper and the acid handy and don't know the exact composition of the cleaner, dumping the concentrate is your safest course of action. I would also suggest that you start and finish every wash with a good rinse. This way if you forget to swap the valve over you have just diluted the concentrate not contaninated it.

[CBOYER]

sodium hydroxid is caustic soda. soda ash is soda carbonate.

[Brent]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were not some other ingredients. Maybe surfcants. I wouldn't chance it unless you knew
that was the only stuff in it.
Thanks Cboyer, correction made.

[michiganfarmer2]

this is why, when I do get an RO, someone els is gonna run it, and wash it. I can see myelf doing this at least a couple times per season

[802maple]

There was a sugarmaker here in Vermont that made another person very sick by boiling the sap with the soap in it.

[danno]

Yup, that concentrate just got added to the moisture content in my backyard.

[markcasper]

danno, Don't feel bad, yesterday I left the syrup shack to go out and get the last hundred gallons of sap. I was pumping sap at the shack to the 1000 gallon RO feed tank which was nearly full. When arriving back the lower tank was running over and the hose in the 1000 gallon tank was 1/2 way down. You know the rest of the story.

I fear doing that with the soap, luckily it hasn't yet.

[DrTimPerkins]

I'm assuming I'm dumping the concentrate?

Dump it. By law and regulation it is considered adulterated (inadvertant contamination). At best it is illegal. At worst you could make someone very ill.

[PATheron]

Guys- I have the same fears as well. I also have a lot of valves with two ro's that recirc and send sap to the head tank. This is what I do. Once Im done concentrating I physically every time go pull the lines out of the head tank, the recirc lines out of the tanker and the perm output lines out of the perm tanks. Then I put my machines on wash. Then when I put them in service quite often I leave a little perm water available and fire them up with water and then turn the sap on to them and send it to the tanker. I go up on top taste the output and make sure all is well and stick the lines back in the tanks where they should be. Then I walk around the shed and make sure nothing is running out drains. Its a little extra time but you put wash in product and it has to be thrown out. Thats my safety deal. I also make sure when I quite at night there is no lines down in sap so it wont siphon back out. Theron

[Brent]

Pilots have a well known and simple device that saves lives.

Check lists.

Make one and use it.

[DrTimPerkins]

There was a sugarmaker here in Vermont that made another person very sick by boiling the sap with the soap in it.

I had the distinct displeasure of tasting that same syrup after the person got ill (hospitalized briefly). Barely touched my tongue to it...and it burned.

[Gary in NH]

When in doubt check the pH of the sap. It shouldn't be much above 7.0. My raw sap is usually pH 6.7. RO soap is sodium hydroxide which is caustic (high pH) so if the pH is elevated something's wrong. If the pH is ever over 8.3 there must be hydroxide residual present.

[802maple]

I had the distinct displeasure of tasting that same syrup after the person got ill (hospitalized briefly). Barely touched my tongue to it...and it burned.

I too, tasted that same syrup, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

[orser506]

Take your beating and from now on every time you wash think of the $ you dumped down the drain. I done it years ago only i ruined around 1200 gal. Haven't done it since .

[Russell Lampron]

I forgot to close the valve to my feed tank and pump the contents of my wash tank into it a couple of years ago. My RO plumbing was a plumbers nightmare at the time. I discovered it when I the defoamer wouldn't knock the foam down in my flue pan. I dumped the syrup that I had drawn off that night, drained and washed the evaporator, and drained and washed the feed tank. I have since straightened out the plumbing in my RO room and like Brent said I now use a check list to make sure it won't happen again. The first thing that I do is shut off the valves to the recirc line and feed tank.