insulating and bricking arch?

[MASSEY JACK]

Hi everyone,

Just got an newer evaporator. It is a small bros 2.5 x 8. The bottom of the arch where it meets the floor has a 2 inch gap all around it except for the corners. How do most people fill that in? The person I bought it from said he poured an 8 inch ash pit riser to give more room for ashes and filled it in with bricks. Just wanted some ideas. :?:

Also, I would like to know what everyone likes to use for the insulation behind the bricks. Ceramic blanket or insulation board like Bascom's has?
The unit came with the 1 1/4 inch(?) fire brick. :?:

The fire brick was on a pallet out doors and is covered with snow.Do I need to put that brick inside for a while to dry out before I can butter it up and lay it in the arch? :?:

It is wood fired..............Jack

[mountainvan]

not sure about the bottom. 3x8 grimm I used to boil with had the bottom open. I kind of liked it like that for the extra draft. bricks you have are 1/2 brick used under the flue pan, I use ceramic wool. the firebox uses full brick which are 2 1/2". just went out to the sap house to check, cold out there!!. you can put the archboard behind the brick, but with a 2.5x8 you may not need it. as for mortar I don't have my bricks mortared just a good dry fit. if you do mortar bricks should be room temp. you have to wet them for mortar to work[ put together a intensofire]. ceramic blanket should be layed on the arch deck leaving space for cleaning the flues. also on the arch rail put down the flat woven ceramic gasket and insulate between the front and flu pan with ceramic blanket or the flat gasket. I attached the gasket to my rail and pans with high temp silicon. by the way pickett lumber has full fire brick at a good price.

[Father & Son]

The 2 x 6 I started with last year had the bottom sealed off and fire brick lined. With everything being new to us I thought this was the way it was supposed to be. The third time we boiled I warped ALL the grates. I called around to the Leader dealers in my area and found new grates. My wife and son went to pick them up and the dealer told them the grates warped because of the bottom being sealed up. He said because the hot bed of ashes was so close to the grates that not enough air was going through to keep them from overheating and that's why they warped. Sounded good to me, but remember we are new at this and everything sounds good! Since then I have been watching all the wood fired evaporators that people have pictures of and the ones I have seen the bottoms are open.

Jim

[forester1]

I think most people on a raised flue like yours, fill in the back behind the baffle up to within a couple inches of the flue pan. Then leave room again back by the chimney. That directs the flame up into the flues. I used perlite, then a layer of ceramic blanket to keep the perlite from being blown around. I closed off the sides on the bottom with fire brick, but kept the front open. I placed some sheet metal there that can be removed for extra draft or to remove ashes, or left in place. I used brick with refractory cement. Full size with arch board on the bottom front and ramp and half size with arch board on the sides and elsewhere, including under the perlite. My evaporator is 4x12 so there was room for the full-size brick plus arch board. You don't want to lose too much room in the firebox. I liked the arch board because you can cut it to a tight fit with a knife and it will stay where you put it. I'm no expert on this but just from what I got from talking to others, this forum, and my own opinion on what I wanted to do.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It is fine for the bottom to be sealed off and has to be that way especially if there is any type of forced air. The reason your grates warped is because you didn't clean out the ashes after each boil and they built up against the bottom of the grates. Also, the grates will expand when heated, so you need to leave room on all sides of the grates for expansion! :?

PS I think most new evaporators have the bottom sealed off anyway! :?

[MASSEY JACK]

I was sure that I needed to close the bottom in or how else would you control the draft. I like the idea of maybe putting a hinged plate on it on the rear opening so i could add more air if needed and block the sides. I will probably add forced draft later on.

Jack

[brookledge]

Jack,
The brick and the arch should be above 32 degrees so that the mortar you use will not freeze. When I did mine in the cold temps all I did was to take a blue tarp and suspend it over the arch then was able to use a small propane heater to keep everthing nice and warm while I worked and also after I was done to help cure the mortar.
Keith

[MASSEY JACK]

When you put the bricks in with the insulation board do you put any mortar between the brick and the board? I suspect you only mortar from brick to brick. Do you have to somehow bond the insulation board to the arch?Seems like everything would just lay in there without bonding because of the slanted sides. How do they hold the brick in in the straight walled arches? Seems like my cheap help(dad) might knock out some bricks when the wood gets thrown in.......Jack

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jack,

One thing is nearly certain is that you can't get too much draft. I have a blower on mine and run it wide open all the time and I could stand even more. It is set the way it came from Leader and it is about perfect. I could adjust the internal settings on the switch and crank it up some more, but per Leader, it is designed to be ran wide open on my arch for maximum efficiency and it seems to work great that way! :)

[forester1]

I just mortared the bricks to each other and to the cement floor under the grates. I don't think mortar would stick to the arch board, but I don't know. You can cut the board to fit tight and it will stay where you put it. If you cut a piece too small just cut a sliver and jam it in so it's tight. Another way is if you use ceramic blanket you could maybe keep it there with rtv high temperature silicone, or maybe the silicone would work on the arch board too. That's just a guess, I don't know for sure on that either. I used the rtv to hold down the gasket on the rails under the pans.

[MASSEY JACK]

Brandon, I did not get any stack with the unit as it was rotted and thrown away. The seller said it had 10 inch when he bought it new from Bascom's. I called Bascom's and Dave priced new 10 inch to me. I called Goodrich and they said it should have 12 inch stack. What do you think?

Also, from your previous response, do you think I should leave the bottom of the arch open??

Jack

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Either way you should be fine. I have a 2x8 and have 10". I think 12" comes on 3x8 and maybe 3x10. Better go larger to get even more draft. It is nearly impossible to have too much draft and if that is the case, you can control it with the damper door.

Nearly everyone is always trying to get more, so go with 12". :D

[super sappy]

If you are in need of more brick give wiley bros a call.when i did my arch this summer they beat everyones price by 1$ per brick for full size. If you are in need of brick cutting tools I also may be able to help. Nice buckets

[MASSEY JACK]

Super sappy,

Sounds like you went to see Nelson?

I got some half brick from Tractor Supply last weekend for my wood stove. It was not any cheaper than Bascom's but I did notice it was only good for 2100 degrees. I think Bascom's is 3000 degree. I am sure that I will need a few more bricks. Is Wiley's the 3000 degree brick? I would like to borrow your brick cutting tools.

Jack

[super sappy]

I think the bricks were 2500? My kids are at my mothers in cambridge.I have to pick them up on Sat afternoon.maybe we can hook up then .Id like to check out someone elses opperation.I have been the lone super sappy for many years here in Easton. Where are you located?

[MASSEY JACK]

Hey everyone,
one more question on this. My flue pan flues are 2 inches above the bottom sides of the pan that lay on the rails. How close to the flues do I want to go with the brick on the ramp that forces the heat up into the flue pan. I am thinking of laying half brick with mortar across the angle iron support at the top of the ramp. This will give me about an inch gap between the flues and the ramp top. I have a brush to clean the soot out of the flues and don't want to knock them out when brushing them. Otherwise she is all insulated with arch board and the half brick. I mortared the sides and the first course on the ramp,the rest are laid dry. The back part is insulated and bricked and I will fill the rest with dry sand on sunday. I built a 6 inch channel iron frame and bolted the arch to the top of it. I built in fork lift pockets on the front so I can move this thing around fully bricked. It works well and gives me a deeper ash pit.

Thanks. :)

[maple flats]

I only have between 1-1.25" under the drop flues, works goos so far.