New Pre Heater pics

[MapleME]

about 45 feet of 1/2 inch copper, plus a S*$t load of 90 degree angles...

Shes looking pretty good, and ready to go to work

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=625969&id=727595709&l=e7d240a921

[Southtowns27]

Holy crap. Did you get a strange look at the store when you bought all those elbows? lol

[MapleME]

ha! South, you have no idea.

plumbing guy: "new construction"
me: "nope, syrup project"
plumbing guy: "what the ......"

[sapsick]

thats some good lookin stuff there. put a ball valve on the end and bottle the syrup on the way out!

[MapleME]

hey sap, did you get em in yet? When you heading to "the berg" to fire up the evap?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dont forget the vent. Now I was always worried about the cleaning out of the flux . Any secrets???

[sapsick]

startin to get in tomorrow PM. Hittin Lexington on Sat. then the "berg" on Sun. Been washing and prepping tanks since Sat. Hopefully fire in the dragon around Monday.
.

[MapleME]

Dont forget the vent. Now I was always worried about the cleaning out of the flux . Any secrets???

Haynes,we went REALLY light on the flux. I used Dawn and hot water. Hell, we use Dawn in the HAZMAT spills to decontaminate people from all sorts of bad stuff, so thats my "go to" all the time.

Listen, tell me a little more about your vent comment...didnt think of that, and now you have me thinking. Thanks buddy

[MapleME]

startin to get in tomorrow PM. Hittin Lexington on Sat. then the "berg" on Sun. Been washing and prepping tanks since Sat. Hopefully fire in the dragon around Monday.
.

NICE! We are gonna get in this weekend maybe have enough to fire her up the following weekend

[Haynes Forest Products]

It looks as though you will be laying the unit flat. With the head tank putting pressure from above and the float valve stopping the sap flow hot sap will create gas and pressure so you need to vent it so you dont get vapor lock. If it ever gets so hot that it boils or spits built up gas its going some place. You want a vent out the end of the line near the float valve. It needs to be as high as the top of the head tank to not overflow when the float valve closes. Air/gas/vapor will build up and the sap will get confused and wont push the sap out of its way and then the preheater will stop sap from flowing then the pan goes dry and the shack catches on fire the woods burn down and catch the town on fire and the..........well you have seen the movie:mad:

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maple Me I would also fill with a small amount of water and vinigar and hit it with all the heat I could get and let it steam clean. I always felt I could taste the flux.

[sweetwoodmaple]

MapleMe - You may want to do some looking at other preheaters. It seems like too much pipe length in series...you may have boiling or vapor lock issues. As Haynes said...you need a vent or two. Or, cut yours in half and make two parallel flow systems.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

MapleMe - You may want to do some looking at other preheaters. It seems like too much pipe length in series...you may have boiling or vapor lock issues. As Haynes said...you need a vent or two. Or, cut yours in half and make two parallel flow systems.

Got to have a vent like others have said and make a T where sap goes into preheater. That way there if the preheater screws up some how you can shut valve going to pH and open the other one that dumps right into float box.

[MapleME]

I dont have a float box, I just have a big bulk tank that sits up high, and it runs right into that pre heater that sits on top of my pan. Does that change the need for a vent?

[Brent]

Nope, you will still get vapor locks without vents.

If you're going to try it as is, better plumb in a by-pass so you can go directly from your
feed tank to the pans because when you get the vapor locks you'll starve the evaporator
and burn the pans.

[MapleME]

Nope, you will still get vapor locks without vents.

If you're going to try it as is, better plumb in a by-pass so you can go directly from your
feed tank to the pans because when you get the vapor locks you'll starve the evaporator
and burn the pans.

OK Im with ya- so if I need to add a vent, what/where should I put it? Been looking at these other pics, cant seem to find one with a obvious vent

[Brent]

With the continuous flow you've got, my guess would be the high point. The vent tube needs to be higher by a foot or two than the highest point in your feed tank.

BUT

No commercial builder of pre-heaters make continuous flow (that I know of). They all make parallel flow. One manifold on the bottom and one manifold on the top with all the tubes running parallel from bottom to top. Thats what I had on mine the last two years.

The worst news is that for all the cost ( in your case work ) you only get about a 10% improvement in boil rates.

[Brent]

Go to this page on Leader's web site

http://www.leaderevaporator.com/p-286-parallel-flow-sap-pre-heater.aspx

Click on the picture and you get an enlargement. You can see the vent pipe from the middle of the manifold at the right (high) end.

You'll also want a drip pan to collect the condensation, and there will be lots of it, so you can catch it and channel it out of the hood so you don't have to re-evaporate it. You can see the copper drain pipe coming off the back, towards the brick wall, at the left side of the drip pan.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I must also stress the need for the unit to be as level as possible. If air bubbles build up in one end or another it can be a problem. The sap will have to transition in and out of the loops thru air pockets and sometimes it wants to belch on you and piss you off:mad:

[3rdgen.maple]

Wow you almost got more copper elbows than taps lol.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I must also stress the need for the unit to be as level as possible. If air bubbles build up in one end or another it can be a problem. The sap will have to transition in and out of the loops thru air pockets and sometimes it wants to belch on you and piss you off:mad:

I always thought one end wanted to be higher than the other, at least thats how PH are when you buy them from comm. manufacturers

[Haynes Forest Products]

Flatlander That is if your running a parallel type yours is a single tube so the rules change. In yours the sap would be going up and back down every pipe so air will build up in all the high elbow's. The hot sap has to push the air out. Nan that means pushing the air down each pipe:mad: In a parallel the sap enters low and exits high and all the air bubbles vent out on its own its not pushed out.

[TapME]

MapleME. are you having a continious flow coming out of the heater? Is it setting in a hood? Just questions that will make the answer easier to get, and the right one at that. Just remember when steam builds up pressure will follow and that is the problem. Give me a call I may be able to help. That can be call to question at times( the help that is). Have fun making syrup.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Flatlander That is if your running a parallel type yours is a single tube so the rules change. In yours the sap would be going up and back down every pipe so air will build up in all the high elbow's. The hot sap has to push the air out. Nan that means pushing the air down each pipe:mad: In a parallel the sap enters low and exits high and all the air bubbles vent out on its own its not pushed out.

ohh ok thanks

[MapleME]

Wow you almost got more copper elbows than taps lol.

quite the comedian you are

[MapleME]

MapleME. are you having a continious flow coming out of the heater? Is it setting in a hood? Just questions that will make the answer easier to get, and the right one at that. Just remember when steam builds up pressure will follow and that is the problem. Give me a call I may be able to help. That can be call to question at times( the help that is). Have fun making syrup.

Thanks Lou, basically I have my feed tank (35 gallon plastic barrel) connected by flexible tubing to the inlet on the copper preheater. I was just going to dribble the sap in like I have done for years. I have a ball valve on the barrel to control the flow. I kinda didnt think it was or needed to be any more complicated than that. The entire preheater sits on top of the rail of my pan, since I have one big 2x6 flat pan. No hood. Frankly, I cant see the sap getting so hot it will boil in there, but I dunno maybe I will be surprised.

Thanks for the advice

[TapME]

That makes sense to me MapleME. Just be prepared to change back to the old system if something should happen. (I bet you already thought of that) Have a great time boiling.

[sapsick]

how about putting a ball valve on the end of the tubing over the pan and controlling flow from there. then the copper would be full of sap. no chance of it boiling then i dont believe

[danno]

If you have no hood, I don't think you'll have to worry about vapor lock. You should have a drip tray under the pre heater so all that condensate does not drip back into your pan. But without a hood, I don't know how you are going to get the preheater hot with a tray blocking the steam.

A simple valve I use for vapor lock is a piercing valve right into your copper pipe at the end of your system and at a high point. I have small/flex copper from the piercing valve into the float box (some direct right back into their head tank). As you can open and close the piercing valve, you can close it enough so the head pressure from your feed tank does not push sap through it, but leave it open enough to spit if vapor lock occurs.

[MapleME]

how about putting a ball valve on the end of the tubing over the pan and controlling flow from there. then the copper would be full of sap. no chance of it boiling then i dont believe

Sap, you think its better to control the sap at that end vs up at the tank?

[sapsick]

thats what i think. to me it only makes sense that the fuller that pipe is with sap the less likelihood you have of it boiling in the pipe. thats how i have mine. i also installed a tee with a separate ball valve pointed down into a 5 gal bucket should issues arise i can quicklt open the "OH SH>>" valve and flood the preheater with cold sap. any bubbles should go back to the head tank anyway.

[MASSEY JACK]

My parallel flow preheater did not have a vent when I got it. I added one at the highest point on the discharge pipe. I connected clear tubing to it and ran it up the wall 2 to 3 feet above the top of the feed tank. I can see bubbles exiting and best of all it is a sight gauge for my feed tank level so I don't have to go out and climb up to look.

Jack