Local Park System sells syrup at $42 gallon?

[johnallin]

As posted in an earlier thread, below is the link to the article about our local park system and their (our?) maple operation and the pricing they put out in the local paper.

For those who depend on their maple crop for income and some kind of return on investment; how can they afford to compete with a county owned park that sells at these prices, but most importantly, why should they have to? The Lake and Geauga County market is in the $50-60 range - or it used to be.

I am amazed at the waste of tax payer dollars, but even more so at the blatant attack on local small business.

http://news-herald.com/articles/2011/02/18/news/doc4d5ea338c055a068067565.txt?viewmode=fullstory

[christopherh]

John, I hope everyone here will pick up the phone or send an email or letter and voice there opinion. I have emailed them without a response and will look for some phone numbers. I know they have a board of directors we could voice our frustrations to also. Chris

[sapsucker]

How nice...pay taxes so that money can be used to subsidize an operation to compete with your own business.

While I think it's great that they are putting on an event to educate the public about maple syrup making, they ought to stay out of the syrup business and let local producers come in a sell at the event.

[jmayerl]

I don't understand their pricing: quart and pints seem to be around market price(9/15) then a gallon is only 42?

[BryanEx]

They likely don't sell many gallons and keep in mind that there is an admission fee on top of their prices. I tried to find out what that fee was but no luck.

[markcasper]

I can understand to a degree your frustration, especially being government run. On the other hand there are probably some other producers in your area selling it for $42.00.

To say that is wrong is not really right as that is a true free market system. In Wisconsin, syrup tends to be the cheapest of any place. There are lots of Amish and Mennonite folk that sell for much lower than I and I am at $40 a gallon. It kind of irks me some, but on the other hand they are doing nothing illegal selling it at a lower price. We have to face the facts and maybe end up lowering the price to remain competitive. One thing we do have control over is to make sure that syrup quality is better than the next guy and you'll keep your customers for sure even if the price is a bit higher.

[talahi maple products]

It;s not right anyway you look at it. Government should not be in any type of business thats competing with the public sector with tax dollars. We have state owned ski resorts, camp grounds,and the list goes on & on, Regulating the price of a product by using tax dollars to subsidise them is a unfair advantage, My E-mail is on it's way (and it will be slightly harsher than this post) Don't give up Johnallin ,your in the right.

[johnallin]

BrianX and Markcasper,

You are both right in that they probably don't sell that much and can sell for whatever price they see fit.

For me, the rub comes from the advertised prices which are below what the locals are trying to get for their hard work and monies invested.

Not the end of the world by any stretch, but I still don't see how the park system didn't know they were undercutting the folks that do this for keeps and not just entertainment. But, it's a touchy subject as one could argue that the natural resources of the park land belong to all of us and we have right to enjoy them. Possibly they could have stuck with maple stirs and little bottles that would have little impact on the local market...

Thank God, this is a free country and we can all sell our wares for whatever we see fit and what the traffic will bear...the lowball prices just irked me a bit that's all.

Now it's time to collect and boil. Everything is tapped, sugar house is all ready, wood has all been cut, and our trees look like they're waking up today - besides, I need be outside.

[RileySugarbush]

My family was first introduced to Maple production at the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum. they let kids tap trees and have great demonstrations.

They sell their syrup as a fundraiser through the gift shop and do well at high prices for 12 oz bottles. Perhaps you should suggest that to your local park and make everyone happy.

[MilesTeg]

I think its a great thing to have Parks using the natural resources and educating the public, but by no means should be selling it to the public. Rather they should donate it to a shelter or food bank. if our government is going to compete with the private sector then we might as well be Communist government.

[lastwoodsman]

In Minnesota they compete with the nursery industry as well. They have their own nurseries that sell seedlings to the public in direct competion with the private sector.
As soon as gov cuts their labor like all other business's and act in a responsible way ----oh yea why should they ---its a bottomless pit of money for them.
Woodsman

[BryanEx]

For me, the rub comes from the advertised prices which are below what the locals are trying to get for their hard work and monies invested.
jmayerl stated that the smaller sizes were close to local market values (not including admission costs) and if that is correct, perhaps they are only misguided on the gallon pricing for some reason. There are many conservation areas, State Parks, natural interpretation areas, or historic sites that offer one or two weekends of sugaring demos and personally I think it's good for our industry. It draws in large groups and individuals we would not normally see at our own sugar shacks as an introduction to sugaring off. As we can all attest to, once you're bitten by the bug it becomes a seasonal tradition and that's what develops into repeat customers. These State, Provincial, or not-for-profit organizations are only helping our fight against the Log Cabins & Aunt Jemimas of the world in my opinion. If their pricing is off compared to local values it should be addressed but I also think we are all partners in the industry trying to both educate the public and promote a healthy product and an enjoyable day outing for the family

[johnallin]

If their pricing is off compared to local values it should be addressed..."

Amen BryanEx, that's what peaved me, and I'm going to call this week, to see if possibly what was published was a typo. I hope it was, if not I hope they are willing to listen and consider a change in policy. It's worth a try...


.." but I also think we are all partners in the industry trying to both educate the public and promote a healthy product and an enjoyable day outing for the family

And I agree. With the amount of advertising they purchase, the park promotes maple and offers enjoyable outings for families who may not otherwise do so.

But at $6 a head admission for a day of horse-drawn wagon rides, collecting and boiling sap, and a nice retail store at the end of the day to boot, it's educational all right and a lot of bang for the buck. But it makes a $100 for a four hour package look a bit expensive ... in comparison.

[Ed R]

When I was in high school and college we raised strawberries to pay for my brother an I to go to school(1-3 acres). One year a local advertised in the paper for 20cents less a quart than us. They had 2 20 foot rows of berries. I called and placed an order for 12 cases of berries. The lady told me there was no way she could fill that order. I told her maybe she shouldn't be advertising in the paper then. The add was gone the next week. If I were the local producers I would pool together and put in an order for a couple hundred gallon/call ther bluff,the worst you would do is end up with extra syrup you could resell. It might open their eyes.

[spud]

When I was in high school and college we raised strawberries to pay for my brother an I to go to school(1-3 acres). One year a local advertised in the paper for 20cents less a quart than us. They had 2 20 foot rows of berries. I called and placed an order for 12 cases of berries. The lady told me there was no way she could fill that order. I told her maybe she shouldn't be advertising in the paper then. The add was gone the next week. If I were the local producers I would pool together and put in an order for a couple hundred gallon/call ther bluff,the worst you would do is end up with extra syrup you could resell. It might open their eyes.

Open their eyes to what?

So your going to pool together to make a really big order in hopes that they cannot fill the order. And this is going to teach them a lesson? And then you say the worst that could happen is you would buy it and have extra syrup on hand.


Edited By Admin. due to content

[Ed R]

What I was getting at is if the park system gets several larger orders for gallons,maybe they would realize they're gallon pricing is out of whack with the predominate pricing in the surrounding area. You could always re-can in smaller containers and make out ok,especially if its a short year an you have orders . Subsidized government competion makes for an unenven playing field and leads to hard feelings.

[BryanEx]

Amen BryanEx, that's what peaved me, and I'm going to call this week, to see if possibly what was published was a typo. I hope it was, if not I hope they are willing to listen and consider a change in policy. It's worth a try....
Excellent! ... and exactly what you should do in my opinion but how many other local producers will do the same? There was a recent discussion on Maple Trader about a TV segment that wrongly indicated there was colouring in maple syrup and the response of people contacting them to complain went several pages deep. I do not take issue with a limited time-frame government supported event like this but they should also be in line with local commercial producers. The questions I have is that I believe there is a large Amish population in the area which may affect pricing but also an earlier post remarked that it was mostly the gallon price which was out of line. If that is indeed correct it may just be a pricing error or someone not understanding profit ratios and margins. Out of my own curiosity I will be reviewing the listings I have on Sugarbush.Info to see just exactly what posted prices are on those producer web sites.


But at $6 a head admission for a day of horse-drawn wagon rides, collecting and boiling sap, and a nice retail store at the end of the day to boot, it's educational all right and a lot of bang for the buck. But it makes a $100 for a four hour package look a bit expensive ... in comparison.
That all depends on the market you are selling to and the connection with your customers. A $100 four hour package sells out a year in advance while someone selling $6 cans just down the road is thinking about dropping their price to increase sales. It's no different than a park system selling syrup a couple of weekends a year and your customers that may order more syrup at any time of year. It's a completely different market group.

As hobby farmers (as most of us are) we are often way too apologetic in our pricing and/or products. We will readily buy equipment and supplies at full retail yet sell to consumers at wholesale just because someone else may be cheaper or the customer might not like the price. Determine your value, stick to it, do not apologize for it, and sell it. If you run out each year your pricing is good or even still too low. If you have inventory left over than it could possibly be a pricing issue but I'm more willing to bet it's a marketing issue. Currently I plan on bumping my prices again for 2012 because I'm still selling out each year and have not hit that equilibrium between price and sales despite the $40 ~ $80 per gallon price range in my area.

The one other issue is about the State being involved in the first place and I think that is all in the eye of the beholder. For the families that attend and the smiles on the kid's faces I am sure it's worth it. For other individuals that never leave their condo, they may enjoy some type of arts program which I have no use for and hate supporting through tax dollars. I hate paying for libraries when there are commercial book stores and the Internet available and don't even get me started on the special interest groups... but we all pay for them as part of the package and based on current government.

[3rdgen.maple]

Johnallin there is a real simple solution to this. Pay the 6 bucks on a saturday. Go in the place and buy a pint of their syrup. Proceed to be in a spot in the center of the location. Make yourself highly visible. Make a vocal gesture like " I hope this syrup is as good as the stuff that John Allin guy down the road makes" and take the cap off and take a big swallow. Then without anyone noticing stick your finger down your throat and well Vomit. Then yell out this stuff is crap it must be the carcinogens from the caramel dye they are adding to it at this place. :rolleyes:

[christopherh]

And it also tastes like lead! :lol:

[emo]

Several of the Metro Parks in Central Ohio make syrup and sell it during the spring, at least they used to. The local Boy Scout camp north of Columbus and a Church camp about a half hour north also have Maple weekends, but again they also sell syrup. This may increase competition for those who sell syrup, but usually these places only sell for 1 weekend, not the whole season.

[johnallin]

As the Trader is mostly folks who like to be outside, run around in the woods, splitting wood and collecting sap; I think we are all on the same page. Everyone here has made some valid points and brought up interesting solutions.

The park system just needs to know, that even if it's only for a few weekends, they set a "price point" and make it difficult for some to justify their pricing. But the truth is, they are going to do what they feel works for them and I guess if I offered horse drawn wagon rides it'd be really tough to compete with $6 a head admission - for all day at that. It's not just maple that is affected - so I've decided to get over it and use my vote to effect change.

Reminds me of a sign I once saw:
There are 3 kinds of people in the world;
Those who Watch things happen,
Those who Make things happen, and
Those who Wonder What happened.

[BryanEx]

The park system just needs to know, that even if it's only for a few weekends, they set a "price point" and make it difficult for some to justify their pricing.
I agree 100%. They are also selling themselves short as I would expect any sales to be rolled back into help fund any other seasonal programs they offer as part of their annual budget.