sap backing up in frozen tubing?

[emu742]

This may be the advantage for the short metal spouts that are open directly into a bucket?

My tubing is backed up with frozen sap in the mornings and late evenings when the sap is still running despite sap in tube thawing slowly or freezing for the night. The pressure causes it to push up through the tube and bubble and fizz out of the connection between the tube and spile (even though its a tight, barbed hook up).

Is this part of having a closed system? My jar can be completely empty but the little sap that does drip freezes and clogs up the tube late at night and through to noon the last couple days.

My tree even seems to be leaking around the spout a bit now, which I suspect is a bit a result of this backlogged pressure too. I applied some warm beeswax for the heck of it around the spile and bark, but I could just be adding to the pressure problem now, not sure.

My tube is 5/16 and running directly down to my jar, no obstructions or kinks etc. And I empty my jar before its full etc.

[michiganfarmer2]

since I put my tubing on wire, and streched it tight with slope so there are no droops for sap to settle in and freeze, I havent had any tubing blocked with frozen sap.

Putting my tubing on streched wire was one of the best thigns I ever did

[adk1]

since I put my tubing on wire, and streched it tight with slope so there are no droops for sap to settle in and freeze, I havent had any tubing blocked with frozen sap.

Putting my tubing on streched wire was one of the best thigns I ever did

So you wired the laterals? Hmm. Interesting. I always thought that would be a good idea but nobody seems to do it

[emu742]

Do you do the wire inside the tubing or tie the tubing to the wire?

I'm not sure if that would help mine, it is only 2 ft long and a vertical drop to my jar.

It has the slightest bend to it, but perhaps even a slight bend is all you need when temps get real low fast.

Or maybe any quick severe drop in temp will do this to tubing because of its length and exposure to the cold air (compared to a spout dripping directly into a bucket)?

[foursapssyrup]

is the end of your tubing "under water"? (immersed in sap)
our lat's fill up with sap despite being tight and having good slope. the tubing usually thaws out by the time the trees run. maybe try bending the tube around to break up the ice inside so the sap can leak through and melt it.

[mapleack]

So you wired the laterals? Hmm. Interesting. I always thought that would be a good idea but nobody seems to do it

Unless you have a very long span of 5/16 with little fall there is no need to put laterals on wire. If there is enough fall, and they are installed fiddle tight with a tubing tool, there won't be any low spots to freeze. Tubing usually thaws quickly too, one of the possible problem spots is if you have a wrap around the shady side of tree, always be sure to have fall around the tree.

[morningstarfarm]

I wouldns worry about wiring drops into buckets...make sure the tubing goes into the bucket just far enough to stay there..if the tubing is in the sap, it will actually suck the sap back into the tree at night...I have seen a tree reclaim over an inch in a 5 gal bucket on a freez night...it was pretty amazing...:o

[tylerj]

I am having the same problem with sap filling the tubing and freezing. I'm using 4 gallon pails with 2 line tee'd together then onto the pail. One of them started leaking out the top at the spile connection because of this. A small pinhole (on a downward angle so the sap can't leak out) in the tubing near the spile solved it for me. I've tried it on a couple so far and contemplating doing it to all of them. It keeps the tubing clear so when it starts dripping the next day I don't have to wait for it to thaw out. I know they say this could introduce bacteria but at the same time I think I'm missing out on the sap waiting for the 3 to 4 feet of frozen sap in the tubing to melt.

[maplecrest]

wind chill is your problem.as the sap dripped it froze and backed up with each drip. i shut my vac off too early two nights ago thinking it had froze and it warmed up sap movement and sap backing up drops freezing and pushing spouts out of trees.was tired from tapping and not thinking.but same thing will happen if you have a vac leak down the line.

[tylerj]

The tubing fills up with sap without it freezing first actually. The other day I was checking on them later in the afternoon and saw several taps with the tubing full of sap. I think it creates its own vacuum in this type of setup. Not all of them seemed to do it though. Its strange to see the whole thing full of sap with just a steady drip into the pail. I put a small pinhole in it near the top and the whole thing drained into the pail. That was a nice sound though lol.

[emu742]

I am having the same problem with sap filling the tubing and freezing. I'm using 4 gallon pails with 2 line tee'd together then onto the pail. One of them started leaking out the top at the spile connection because of this. A small pinhole (on a downward angle so the sap can't leak out) in the tubing near the spile solved it for me. I've tried it on a couple so far and contemplating doing it to all of them. It keeps the tubing clear so when it starts dripping the next day I don't have to wait for it to thaw out. I know they say this could introduce bacteria but at the same time I think I'm missing out on the sap waiting for the 3 to 4 feet of frozen sap in the tubing to melt.

hmmm thats a good idea - not sure if I understand how the pinhole keeps the tubing clear...I can see it would allow air pressure to escape.

Is this something everyone with tubing deals with? I can't find anything on this, but would imagine if we both have this there must be others with experience too.

Maybe you can attach an air valve to your pinhole (like making sauerkraut) to keep down the bacteria. I can't picture professional producers doing this though, there must be other solutions to freezing tubing.:confused:

[emu742]

The tubing fills up with sap without it freezing first actually. The other day I was checking on them later in the afternoon and saw several taps with the tubing full of sap. I think it creates its own vacuum in this type of setup. Not all of them seemed to do it though. Its strange to see the whole thing full of sap with just a steady drip into the pail. I put a small pinhole in it near the top and the whole thing drained into the pail. That was a nice sound though lol.

You know what that's exactly what I saw late evening yesterday. I squeezed the tube where it connects to the spile to get some air in and it hissed and then about 1/4 cup sap dropped into my jar!

And then the windchill makes sense for freezing it quickly...

I guess this really is a vacuum + exposure issue.

The only way I can think to remedy this is some kind of airlock and tubing insulation but that seems excessive.

My assumption is that usually this isnt a big issue since the tree is also experiencing somewhat same conditions so that they should be thawing and changing pressure simultaneously, well for the most part I'd think..

[Maplesedge]

I had the same problem. 45 degrees and nothing in my bags. I'm also dropping two tubes to a tee and then into the bag, and I could see sap in the tubes, but it wasn't going down to the bag.

But as soon as I cut air vent holes into the tubes, up near the taps, the sap dropped right in!

So I guess the sap was creating it's own vacuum.

Thanks for the solution!

[Groves]

I think you want it creating it's own vacuum. You don't really want to vent the laterals with air holes near the tap.

[Revi]

Our gravity tubing froze up, but that was just because it hasn't been above freezing here for a week. I hope it warms up next week or the one after that or the one after that or some time before June.

[TapME]

I had the same problem. 45 degrees and nothing in my bags. I'm also dropping two tubes to a tee and then into the bag, and I could see sap in the tubes, but it wasn't going down to the bag.

But as soon as I cut air vent holes into the tubes, up near the taps, the sap dropped right in!

So I guess the sap was creating it's own vacuum.

Thanks for the solution!

If the temp outside is marginal for sap to flow you will have problems with it driping on tubing or spouts. Line freezing and spouts poping out of the trees will result. It has been early to tap but the weather here will start to change for good sap runs. Sometimes the early runs are more trouble to keep things flowing. Also the holes you put in the line to drain them will now let bacteria in and heal the taphole quicker. just my thoughts

[emu742]

If the temp outside is marginal for sap to flow you will have problems with it driping on tubing or spouts. Line freezing and spouts poping out of the trees will result. It has been early to tap but the weather here will start to change for good sap runs. Sometimes the early runs are more trouble to keep things flowing. Also the holes you put in the line to drain them will now let bacteria in and heal the taphole quicker. just my thoughts

ah ok yes this makes sense. Definitely very marginal temps - just squeeking by above freezing (and cold wind chill) the days I had the most trouble with this. My bee wax appl. around the spout seems to have helped the leaking that resulted a bit... temps are better now ..have not seen the tube freeze up past couple days.