Saddles Upside WRONG, and Twisting

[AGR1093]

Ok, I know this isn't ideal but, I installed a roadside mainline last year. One straight shot, about 80 taps, 200 yards. I used small (1/2") mainline (didn't know any better), and electric fence wire with strainers at each end. It is right in front of a neighbor's house (the neighbor that let me tap his trees) so I can't leave it up. I coiled up the mainline last spring, now I am putting it back up. I used the saddle type connectors to connect my laterals into my mainline. More than half of them are upside down, but not all of them. It seems like my line has twisted. Any cutesy tricks on how to twist the mainline so the saddles are on top again?!?! Seems like I'll have sitting sap and frezing issues if I don't correct this...

[Sugarmaker]

I fight it every year, but only on 5/16 lines on road side trees.
If I go around the trees the wrong way the drops will be upside down.
I have to watch real close. And I mark the trees.
Chris

[AGR1093]

The supplier I use had the best idea so far, refit the saddles properly, tape up the old holes. They even had rubber plugs that can be fitted into the hole, then taped over. Sounds good for now, but I can't do that every year...:confused:

[adk1]

I dont think that I would be putting tubing up every year and then taking it down every year. I would move onto another property to tap. Too much work.

[Typical8]

The supplier I use had the best idea so far, refit the saddles properly, tape up the old holes. They even had rubber plugs that can be fitted into the hole, then taped over. Sounds good for now, but I can't do that every year...:confused:

Rubber plugs for Mainline? Now I have a hundred Questions.

What size? ( I have both 5/16 & 7/16 )
Will they work under Vac. and with what success?
Where can you get them?
Just tape them in ?

Ok, 4 Questions for now.

[Russell Lampron]

AGR I wrap the hole with electrical tape and put a hose clamp over it. They don't leak even with over 20" of vacuum. If your not using vacuum on yours you don't want mainline over 1/2" diameter. You have a better chance for some natural vacuum with the smaller line. You may want to use a manifold that you cut in instead of the saddles. You just loosen the clamps and twist the manifold into the position want it in.

[maple flats]

try twisting back by attaching to a saddle (with 3/16 nylon rope) , wraping the saddle 2 times in the direction you want to untwist and side pull as needed to tension line and hopefully untwist. Might be worth a try. When you get it up properly, after going around the tree 2x come back to the mainline and tie a clove hitch around the main in the direction that will hold it there. You can then use a couple wraps of electrical tape to hold the clove hitch, but if tight you should not need it.

[Dill]

Ethan I just ran in this exact same issue. You uncoiled the mainline. I ran some used mainline in the new expansion. One branch we uncoiled the 2nd we unrolled. The coiled one did this. And there was no way to straighten it. So I drilled new saddles and put hose clamps with a chunk of rubber between the clamp and the mainline to plug the old holes. Just a flat piece from lowes.
The rolled one worked perfect.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thats wy I use saddles with barb fittings.....................YEA I know They suck, dont work and restrict flow BUT all I ever read about the saddle fittings is they Suck, leak, break easy and there expensive. Now if mine get twisted over time I walk up and twist them stright:) I have some saddles in the parts bins I think I will start my next camp fire with them.

[michiganfarmer2]

if its on vaccum, does it really matter if they are on the bottom? I mean there needs to be air space in the mainline for vacuum anyway

[Dill]

Unfortunately its not just the fitting its the hole for the fitting. They end up on the bottom of the mainline and I'm pretty sure Vac won't suck sap straight up, let alone gravity.
The pipe just gets twisted.

[michiganfarmer2]

Unfortunately its not just the fitting its the hole for the fitting. They end up on the bottom of the mainline and I'm pretty sure Vac won't suck sap straight up, let alone gravity.
The pipe just gets twisted.

it does in sap ladders.

Maybe my logic is scewed. It wouldnt be the first time I was told so.

[Russell Lampron]

The vacuum will suck the sap up but it isn't the best situation for vacuum transfer.

[farmall h]

Try cutting your 1/2" mainline and replacing the saddle fitting with a star fitting. Clamp with star fitting on top. Your 5/16" laterals should keep the star fitting upright when hooked to the wire.

[Sugarmaker]

adk1,
my 2 cents

I dont think that I would be putting tubing up every year and then taking it down every year. I would move onto another property to tap. Too much work.

We are making between 100 and 150 gallons of syrup on that tubing we are 'putin up and takin' down every year. Yea it's not easy but there isn't much in this hobby that is. With a system it can be done. One of the things I like is that I can clean it well.
Regards,
Chris

[Brent]

I wouldn't fuss with them. In fact I got a couple fliped on me and once the sap started running, it sure was easy to find the ones that leaked.

And I don't think there would be much vacuum loss. The sap running down will find the level of the sap in the line without ... even without vac, so you get a bit of gravity assist to get it back up a couple inches into the mainline. Not the same thing at all as a loss at a sap ladder.

[3rdgen.maple]

Just put a splice in before the twisted saddles and turn that whole section of pipe back so the saddles are facing up. Next year if it does it again just twist splice around again.

[SUGARBROOKMAPLE]

try using mainline grips and tensioning the mainline in the proper upright position before tensioning the support wire

[michiganfarmer2]

try using mainline grips and tensioning the mainline in the proper upright position before tensioning the support wire

good idea. Ive thgouht the same thing, but never did it

[adk1]

so how common of a problem is this twisting using the saddles? I have been thinking about using them, but also thinking about usign the in line 4 way lateral fitting. I kind og like the versatility of using the saddle though

[michiganfarmer2]

Just put a splice in before the twisted saddles and turn that whole section of pipe back so the saddles are facing up. Next year if it does it again just twist splice around again.

I like that idea except when stuff freezes up. I have a splice near my releaser. The ice in the main wont pass through the splice, and as slush is drawn down the main, it gets caught at the splice, and plugs the line untill it finally melts

[Brent]

You might get better ice passage if you took the insert connector out and chamferred the inside edges. MIGHT.

[michiganfarmer2]

You might get better ice passage if you took the insert connector out and chamferred the inside edges. MIGHT.

gotcha. thank you. Ill keep that in mind

[markct]

all this talk of saddles turning has me wondering what it is that i have been doing right??? i have thousands of ft of mainline with almost all saddles, and only have had one that turned outa place, and that was mostly cause it was a section of mainline i removed and reused so i think it got turned when i wired it on the new wire. i cant believe all the trouble some guys have, maybe i just got lucky! i do like them so much better than t and star combos, there fast and simple to install

[3rdgen.maple]

This is only a problem for the guys who take down their mainlines every year and when they put them back up they are twisted and it is hard for them to get the saddles lined back up on the top. If your mainline stays up year round this should not happen at all.

[3rdgen.maple]

You might get better ice passage if you took the insert connector out and chamferred the inside edges. MIGHT.

Dr. Tim Perkins showed a video of how the Stainless Steel fittings show less turbulence than the plastic fittings. I would think the reason is the chamfer of the ss on the inside, they should allow better ice flow through them than plastic. Just a thought.

[maple flats]

True, but if you use Lapierre SS fittings you must use a mainline tool and flare them to get started if done in cold weather. Not sure about other brands of SS fittings. haven't tried them yet. SS is pricy, but it does clean better, and restrict flow little or none. You also will not pull fittings apart with SS and proper clamping, at least with the Lapierre fittings.

[AGR1093]

Thanks folks for all the suggestions AFTER the season :D Just kidding, anyway, the rubber plugs I got from my supplier were the wrong size. I just taped with electrical tape and didn't notice any leakage all season; remember I'm not on vacuum. I think I'll have to double check them next year though, they did leak when I flushed them by pumping water back through the line. That of course was a little bit of pressure - I am just nervous it spoiled the seal I had with the electrical tape. By the way, the landowner said, "Ahh geez, I didn't realize how much work it was to put those up and take 'em down, why don't you leave them up up" He gets extra syrup this year ;)

[3rdgen.maple]

Rubber plugs for what?