New at this and have some ?

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Hello everyone I’m new here an new to making maple syrup and have a few questions? I have been wanting to give this a try for sometime and decided that this yr would be it seeing I’m off work tell May and have all the time in the world tell then. I have a 100 taps, all the buckets with lids, wood burner that is 15X24.5, all the wood I will need to boil ready to go, and 40ac of sugar maples. My plan is to put all the syrup I end up with into quart jars.
1. From what I have read and talking to a few other people I should end up with about 20gallons of syrup with my setup…does that sound about right?

2. Am I on the right path?
3. With the amount I will be dealing with will I want to finish the sap on the stove top so I don’t scorch the syrup?
4. When all is said and done I will have spent around $330…will I be able to cover my cost with my setup? Not getting into this to make money but would like to at least cover my cost.

Next fall will be putting up the sugar shack and have a feeling that this is going to get addicting.

Thanks for any help and here is a pic of the burner.

[seclark]

Hi, and welcome to the trader.What size pan are you going to use?As far as the stove is concerned you want the flame in direct contact to the pan for maximum heat and boil.My first setup was similar but home made and I wound up cutting out the top so the flame came in contact with my pan and the difference was twice the boil.Good luck and hope my input helps.

[xyz5150]

Start buying coffee bulk skip the water and just eat it straight. I am a little scared to do 90 taps on a 2x4 with a flue pan while working 60 hrs a week.

[buck3m]

One thing to think about is boiling time. With a flat pan a rule of thumb is that you can boil off one gallon per square foot per hour.

If my math is right, if your pan is 15X24.5 that is about 2 1/2 gallons an hour. If you have 100 taps that run a gallon each on a given day, that will take about 40 hours of boiling! Assuming you are talking about a pan of that size, you will need to reduce your taps dramatically or increase your pan size size greatly, meaning you would also need a bigger "arch" or stove.

Assuming you got all the boiling done, 20 gallons of syrup for the season for 100 taps is in the ballpark.

Breaking even or better? If you work at reducing costs, and don't figure in all of your time I would think you could.

seclark is right, you'll want the flames licking right on the bottom of whatever pan you use.

With batches on a flat pan, I think most people get it as close as they safely can, than finish in a smaller container as you suggested. Get a hydrometer.

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Thanks for the help and another thing......do I need to get a hydrometer cup or can I use somthing else?

You said a gallon a day of sap per tap...isnt that a little much to get on a average day?

[buck3m]

Thanks for the help and another thing......do I need to get a hydrometer cup or can I use somthing else?

You said a gallon a day of sap per tap...isnt that a little much to get on a average day?

You probably don't need a special hydrometer cup, although they are very handy, for one thing you can do the test with way less syrup than most containers, because the cups are tall and narrow. I'm don't know why you couldn't use another tall, narrow, food-grade container.

If you average out your season from the first day of running to the last you will likely get quite a bit less than one gallon per day, but on days where it's running especially good you might get nearly two gallons per day. Last year, for example, I see we collected about 259 gallons from about 250 taps one day, then 581 gallons the next, but we averaged about .6 gallons of sap per tap per day over the course of the season.

Seasons vary dramatically. You never know.

[whalems]

I used a tall glass flower vase the first few years. Worked ok but had to have a pot holder or something because it was HOT:o

[seclark]

You could use a stainless thermos for a test cup if you have one.A pint size would work fine for the short style hydrometer,just don't drop it in, EASE it in or it could break.

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

How long can you keep sap taking that you can keep it cold? Lastnight I looked at my pans again and I should be able to do 3g/hr of sap on the woodburner and on days when it runs real good can use a gas cooker that I could add another 3g/hr. I also have 4 15g food safe jugs to store sap in. Also I will be up there boiling everyday and I Know I'm in for some long days but with no work tell May long days in the woods are a lot better then long days in the house.

With that said am I on the right track and time to learn from doing it?

[xyz5150]

I wouldn't keep sap for more than 2 days. As far as a gas cooker you will spend as much on propane as you will get in return in syrup.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I keep it sometimes up to a week. Key is keep it cold and in the shade and you can freeze buckets of sap and throw into it. I have done this and still made lighter syrup with it but when the temps get higher and later in the season, it would be tough to keep it that long.

[adk1]

yeah, I have been thinking that a 2x4 flat pan was gonna be my ticket. I wish they made a 2x4 that had a flue pan!

[TF Maple]

Thanks for the help and another thing......do I need to get a hydrometer cup or can I use somthing else?

You said a gallon a day of sap per tap...isnt that a little much to get on a average day?

I don't know what the average flow of sap is but many days the flows are easy to handle. It is the big flow days you want to be ready for because you will be over run with sap. Last March the last 2 weekends were big around here with 2 gallons of sap per tap. And 2 of my trees did 4 gallons per tap (made me think we skipped collecting from them until they did it again the next day).

[morningstarfarm]

being a typical cheap yankee here..I made my hydro cup out of a piece of 1" pvc with an end cap..clamped on a handle and there you go..I've been using it for several years now and would not want one of the stainless ones...it keeps the syrup warmer for a bit longer oh and it cost me like $1.50 to make
just my .02:rolleyes: and a gallon of sap per tap is pretty normal during the decent runs and can go several times that during those wonderful peak runs..I have a couple trees that averaged 12 gallons per day on 4 taps last season...I wish I had like 50 of those trees

[Dill]

yeah, I have been thinking that a 2x4 flat pan was gonna be my ticket. I wish they made a 2x4 that had a flue pan!

They do. Mason's 2x4 has a flue pan, and Leader's 2x4 WSE has a flue pan. My old 2x4 Leader VT special that Flat47 is using has a flue pan. Its really a great size evap. I made really nice syrup on that little rig.

[adk1]

Dill, I am looking at the Mason 2x4. I dont see a flue pan, jsut one large flat pan with no flues.

[Dill]

I think he makes one of each. Checking his website its now a 2x4.5 so I guess we are both right.
Like I said I really enjoyed my 2x4 it was a great introduction to a "real" evap, I'd recommend one over a 1/2 pint style anyday of the week.

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Ya you are right gas would not be the best way to go. I figure I will use the 100lb tank I got for free along with the wood burner on the days that its running good. Anyone know how long a 100lb tank would last? After the tank is used up I will have to sell the sap to the guy a few mi away that I cant handle.

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Pulled the burner out today and the good news is I can fit two more 10X16 flat pans next to the smoke stack....which gives me 4 pans on the burner. I was able to get a boil going on it today and got a reading of 650F on the cooking surface with out loading it to the max and no fire brick in it. I figure I should be able to get a little more heat with fire brick. If I drill holes in the surface of the burner that the pans would sit over would I be able to get a better boil going but I'm thinking that that will only make hot spots on the pans? Also when boiling around 2in of sap in the pan the level I want to keep?

[buck3m]

Excellent!

You want flames licking the bottom of your pans. No doubt about it. It's a major lesson we had to learn before the days of forums and such. As long as you don't go past the point of syrup, or let too much foam build up, you shouldn't get hot spots.

Oh, and 2" is a good starting point, just to be safe.

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Sorry for all the questions but I have another one. With the pans I'm using being 10X16 how many and how big of holes would I want to drill on the burner? I know for next year I plan on replacing the whole top with one big pan but just don’t have the money and time to do it this year. Just a little nerves about putting the holes in it because we are not 100% sure this is the burner we want to stick with.

Again thanks for all the help

[buck3m]

I would want to cut holes the size of the bottom of the pans for max heating, but it's your stove. You don't want flames licking up the sides of the pan beyond the sap, though, or they could scorch.

You might also consider a block arch http://www.mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=8159

[Ausable]

How long can you keep sap taking that you can keep it cold? Lastnight I looked at my pans again and I should be able to do 3g/hr of sap on the woodburner and on days when it runs real good can use a gas cooker that I could add another 3g/hr. I also have 4 15g food safe jugs to store sap in. Also I will be up there boiling everyday and I Know I'm in for some long days but with no work tell May long days in the woods are a lot better then long days in the house.

With that said am I on the right track and time to learn from doing it?

You are collecting and boiling sap -- lol -- so you are on the right track.
Couple of pointers --- If You want to make a quality maple syrup - You will need a syrup hydrometer. I was to cheap to buy one and made a thin - second rate syrup for several years. Also - when the Mrs. and I -can- our syrup we use many different size jars. To give to family and friends - I would suggest pints and half pints - give quarts only to those you really really like.
Mother Nature loves to mess with us - so when it comes to sap - either She will not give you enough (She - being Mother Nature) Or She will send you so much that you will be totally overwhelmed ---- Maple Sap is kinda like dipping Smelt - You either don't get any or you fill up the back of a pick-up truck.
Try and keep the sap - waiting to be boiled - in a cold and shady location as the Sun and heat are the enemy of raw sap in storage. When the sap is running good - you never have enough storage containers - so pick up all the free 5 gallon buckets with covers you can find.. -- guess I've blabbed enough - have a great season ---- Mike

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

With puting the holes on the stove top do I need to worry about geting to strong of smoke flavor in my sap/syrup?

[buck3m]

Everybody has the flames licking on the bottom of their pans. At least virtually everyone who makes more than about a gallon a year. Just get a decent seal and it won't be a problem.

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Last question I promise. On days that I need to boil all day will I want to draw off syrup/sap as the day goes on and put in the pot or pan that I’m going to finish on at the end of the day on the gas stove?

thanks everyone for the help and I think I'm more excited for this then opening of deer hunting

[Ausable]

Last question I promise. On days that I need to boil all day will I want to draw off syrup/sap as the day goes on and put in the pot or pan that I’m going to finish on at the end of the day on the gas stove?

thanks everyone for the help and I think I'm more excited for this then opening of deer hunting

Sure - You can do that. Draw it off - Filter into Your finishing pot or pan. Later in the day or the next day bring your maple syrup temp. up to about 185 - 190F and can in your jars..... Now this is what I do and I'm sure You are going to hear at least ten different ways to do it and they will probably all work -- So use the suggestion that works for you.....
Yep ---- That is a good analogy -- Looking forward to maple sugarin season is like looking forward to Deer hunting and if the weather here dosen't straighten out soon -- I'm gonna go out and boil some water - cause the little sap I have is frozen solid ----- LOL ---
Hey -- Keep the questions and answers coming -- At age 70 I'm still learning about Deer Hunting and Maple Syrup making -- from people half my age and thats ok ---- Cause when young folks can still teach old farts like me --- America can still pull out of the mess were in ----- Keep Sugarin --- Mike

[buck3m]

Last question I promise. On days that I need to boil all day will I want to draw off syrup/sap as the day goes on and put in the pot or pan that I’m going to finish on at the end of the day on the gas stove?


Boiling for a long time tends to make syrup darker. The pros who sell commercial try to avoid long boils, but for the little guys doing it for fun it's not much of a problem and it even tends to give the syrup a stronger maple flavor.

For divided pans, people usually are drawing off sporadically all day. For flat pans on small operations, probably most of us draw off once a day, max.

You will be amazed at how much boiling you'll have to do and how little is left at the end compared to the sap you started with. It takes "forever" to make that temp/density to start shooting up, but towards the end it goes faster and then faster, so pay VERY close attention or you will burn a batch. Most of us have been there.

Have fun. You SHOULD be excited!

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

Well this past weekend I made my first gal. of syrup and it taste great...now my question is how long can I leave the syrup at room temp to settle?

[buck3m]

I've heard people say "until the top is perfectly clear." We usually wait at least a week, and as a matter of fact will let it sit for a full two weeks if there is time, just to be sure. Usually it doesn't take nearly as long settle.