Closed & Open Cooling Sys. for SIHI 40412 (802maple?)

[sugarstone]

Figured I'd start another thread on this topic. I hope to get 802Maple to contribute on this one...

I have a remote pump station, not heated, with a small stream beside building.
Presently have 40412 cooled with antifreeze/water roughly 50%. Half-inch lines coming out bottom, T'd then one line going to bottom of 45gal drum (tipped on side) with valve). I have a 1.5" exhaust going to same barrel through top via galv. T (top with a cap to allow for re-filling of barrel). Barrel is 4ft from pump. All potable water pipe.
I would like to run a dual system, run antifreeze in closed sys. and have 5/16s line to creek for 2nd source of cooling liquid.
I would run a closed loop into the stream for antifreeze, connected at bottom. Only change there with my existing system is to install the loop. Should I increase cooling liquid storage by piping a second barrel?
Other source of liquid is the stream. I would put a barbed fitting where plug currently is on top of Inlet Flange side (I ONLY SEE ONE, NOT TWO?). A 5/16s line with filter of some-sort would sit in a deep spot in the creek.
Exhaust would increase to 2.5" pipe, T'ed at flange, vent going up and outside, and pipe going to top of barrel (or two barrels?).

Concerns: am I able to run this system in tandem or one or the other? Will the creek dilute my antifreeze mix?
Am I complicating things here? Its a simple setup though.
Maybe I'll run the closed sys. early season, then hook up the stream later. Or hook everything up with valve on 5/16s line.
...I need another coffee....

[sapman]

I've thought about this some, too, for my setup. Seems to me you must run one or the other. If constantly bringing in fresh water, eventually you'll be running on the ground. Not good with anti-freeze in there. Plus the dilution problem.

[802maple]

I have only run straight water from the stream and our pump is in a enclosed and heated room. If you wanted to pull from the stream, where your pump is not heated, you would have to keep it running as you would risk freezing it if you shutdown. Unless you were to make sure you drained it.
If you get water from the stream it will dilute your antifreeze as Tim said, so you would have to run one or the other. I have heard of sugarmakers running a closed setup such as you were talking about by pulling out of the barrel or tank thru a 5/16ths sap line to the stream and when they get to the stream they would convert to a copper coil( I believe 1/2") and put it in the stream. This would slow the coolant while it was in the stream. Then they would go back to the pump with 5/16ths tubing and attach it at the flange. I have always thought a pickup or large transmission cooler would work great for this but have never tried it.

You would want to watch this carefully as you wouldn't want coolant to get in the stream, especially if someone was watching. LOL

[sugarstone]

.... Then they would go back to the pump with 5/16ths tubing and attach it at the flange. I have always thought a pickup or large transmission cooler would work great for this but have never tried it.

You would want to watch this carefully as you wouldn't want coolant to get in the stream, especially if someone was watching. LOL

Thanks for your replies.

I'am thinking probably Closed System with antifreeze but no 5/16s tubing. I've had a porcupine chewing at my shed and a bear bite the exhaust...me thinks they like the bit of antifreeze that dripped out.
I'am leaning towards all copper to stream and copper in the stream.
You mentioned somewhere in the other posts about two .25" plugs on inlet side of pump. On the SIHI 40412 is the whole one half of the pump the "inlet side"? ..not just the one flange? I don't understand the SIHI pamplets/schematics.
When I attach the cooling loop back to the flange, where does all the liquid go? It doesn't all get exhausted does it?? Or do I pipe it out the bottom of the vac back to the cooling tank?

[802maple]

I have seen them with both one and two plugs. If you are looking at the pump and the shaft from the motor to the pump is on the left use the plug that is on the right hand flange. There is a 1/2 plug that comes out of the base that SIHI recommends using, I also hook that one up straight to the barrel although it doesn't bring much liquid thru that application.

The liquid all goes thru the exhaust back into the barrel or tank.

[Amber Gold]

In a closed system with no outside cooling source, the pumps will quickly heat up a tank of water. If you have a ready cold water source, I'd nix the coolant. I set my pump up on top of a 100 gal stock tank then ran a 5/16 line to a pond. The pump intake draws water from the tank and pond. The 5/16 is enough to keep everything cool. There is a tank overflow which discharges back to the pond. Because of freezing concerns, the pump runs 24/7. If you have heated room the better, or do what I did and build a small shed around the pump. If the power shuts off for some reason, there should be enough water mass to keep the shed from freezing for a period of time. So far this system is working out very well. I'll know tomorrow how it performs in very cold weather, but I will be draining it tomorrow because it's going to be frigid until late this week.

[sapman]

802, are you talking about running 5/16 to the creek in addition to a larger circulation line between the tank and pump? I can see how this would work well. Larger line for volume, smaller line for cooling? I currently run about 270' of 1" black pipe into a swamp and back. What a pain to roll up at end of season! But the 5/16 would be a breeze.

I was planning on setting a radiator in the swamp this year, and may try it later in the season.

[sugarstone]

I have seen them with both one and two plugs. If you are looking at the pump and the shaft from the motor to the pump is on the left use the plug that is on the right hand flange. There is a 1/2 plug that comes out of the base that SIHI recommends using, I also hook that one up straight to the barrel although it doesn't bring much liquid thru that application.

The liquid all goes thru the exhaust back into the barrel or tank.

O.K...

Here's a photo of the pump. Are you referring to the .25" plug to the right of my Inlet? I assume I have to watch for leaks in the cooling loop...
It was my understanding that the bottom 1/2" plugs take service liquid via gravity only? My barrel when 2/3rds full is level with shaft.

[802maple]

802, are you talking about running 5/16 to the creek in addition to a larger circulation line between the tank and pump? I can see how this would work well. Larger line for volume, smaller line for cooling? I currently run about 270' of 1" black pipe into a swamp and back. What a pain to roll up at end of season! But the 5/16 would be a breeze.

I was planning on setting a radiator in the swamp this year, and may try it later in the season.

In your case I would just suspend the 5/16ths in the trees like you do in the woods good and tight so that it is not on the ground if you can and you should be good to go. Are you in a heated shed or atleast one that wouldn't freeze easily and do you run antifreeze?

[802maple]

O.K...

Here's a photo of the pump. Are you referring to the .25" plug to the right of my Inlet? I assume I have to watch for leaks in the cooling loop...
It was my understanding that the bottom 1/2" plugs take service liquid via gravity only? My barrel when 2/3rds full is level with shaft.

You should be able to run in either one of the plugs, but I would run where the inlet is. We have run our pump with the water level as much as 18inches below the pump although most of the time it is around a foot. Yes if you are going to run antifreeze you would want it to be leak proof.

[sugarstone]

great, thanks. I think I know what to do now.
Cooling liquid drum, to loop in creek, into Inlet Flange (1/4" fitting), and tee my exhaust.
Probably also increase liquid storage by adding second drum.
I'll leave the hookups at bottom of pump for now.

[sapman]

In your case I would just suspend the 5/16ths in the trees like you do in the woods good and tight so that it is not on the ground if you can and you should be good to go. Are you in a heated shed or atleast one that wouldn't freeze easily and do you run antifreeze?

I do run anti-freeze. Pump is outside exposed to elements. I was thinking getting the 5/16s into the water would be a lot colder than suspending it.

So do you think all the 1" I run is unnecessary if I do the 5/16?

Thanks!

[802maple]

Definately get it into the water when you get to it, I meant suspend it while you were going to the water. The one inch would certainly slow it down, but I would use the 5/16ths myself and some kind of copper coil or some other unit such as a oil cooler or radiator in the water.