Waterguys RO first run

[backyardsugarer]

Happy with the unit so far. I ran 400 gallons of sap through it tonight. It took 2% to 4% to around 8% on the third pass. I was getting 2 gallons of permeate per minute at 225 PSI (not pushing the unit too hard. The permeate did get reduced to about 1.5 gallons per minute near the end. I gave it a good rinse. I will let you know if the efficiency drops on Wednesday when I expect the next run.

Chris

[802maple]

If it is like all other RO's, you should have given it a good wash before the rinse, good luck I hope it works well for you. Keep us posted.

[backyardsugarer]

I did not think you were supposed to wash them everytime you ran sap through them? I did an initial wash and rinse and then ran sap and rinsed. Washing after everyuse us not recommended on this make and model. I should have more sap tomorrow with a big warm up coming.


Chris

[802maple]

That is interesting, I know it will kill nearly every machine I have had anything to do with if you didn't wash after every use. The theory with all others is a dirty plate is a dirty plate no matter how many eggs you ate. Maybe they have run onto something. Keep us posted.

[spud]

Happy with the unit so far. I ran 400 gallons of sap through it tonight. It took 2% to 4% to around 8% on the third pass. I was getting 2 gallons of permeate per minute at 225 PSI (not pushing the unit too hard. The permeate did get reduced to about 1.5 gallons per minute near the end. I gave it a good rinse. I will let you know if the efficiency drops on Wednesday when I expect the next run.

Chris

I was just wondering how your waterguys RO is working? Is there a way of running sap just once through your Ro and going from 2% to 8% I was also wondering how many gallons per hour your unit really will run? I know it is rated for 200 gallons per hour. I hope everything works out for you. Please keep us posted. I for one am very interested in knowing more about the waterguy's Ro.
Thank you.

[Brent]

What membranes are in that rig ???

[Russell Lampron]

The instructions that came with my Lapierre RO said to rinse the membrane every 4 hours and wash it every 10. Even if I only run it for 4 hours and am all done concentrating for the day I wash it. Too much washing is better than not enough washing. Soap is relatively inexpensive compared to new membranes.

[backyardsugarer]

I will have to get back to you on the type of membranes in the machine. I am very happy with it. I have run sap as high a 9.5% with the machine but I think that was pushing it.

There is no way to run sap through once and get 8% from 4%. The maximum pressure for the housing is 300 and it is recommended I run it at 225 (which I do). I gave it a good washing and rinse when I was done the other day and the efficiency has remanied at 2 gallons of permate per minutre when you start up. By the time I get to 8% I am running just over 1 gallon of permeate per minute.

In my mind the maching has already paid for itself in time savings. I have made over 80 gallons of syrup so far off 800 taps, I am burning a fraction of the wood and get in the house early most nights.

Of course there are some draw backs. It does not have an automatic shut down so you have to keep an eye on things and be around while you are washing/rinsing. It also did not come with a wash tank so I had to build one out of a small stanless tank. In my mind The $5K in savings is more than worth those two short comings.

I would buy one of these again tomorrow if I had to.

Chris

[danno]

Chris - you can add a pressure switch to turn pumps off if flow pressure drops to what ever you set it to. Only a $30 part and well worth it.

[gmcooper]

Just got my unit delivered today, finally. Directions are a little vague on washing but at the end of each day seems like the right approach. The 5000 model is set up a bit different than the 2500. I have low pressure cut out switch. Got a lot of plumbing to get done!
Membrane are NF 270 4040s. Directions say get soap, acid and preservative from Leader.

[spud]

Just got my unit delivered today, finally. Directions are a little vague on washing but at the end of each day seems like the right approach. The 5000 model is set up a bit different than the 2500. I have low pressure cut out switch. Got a lot of plumbing to get done!
Membrane are NF 270 4040s. Directions say get soap, acid and preservative from Leader.

Please keep us posted on your new RO. I am very anxious to see how this unit works out for you. I hope you have a great season.

Mike

[Bucket Head]

Are these one or two membrane machines? Just wondering. The directions say to get RO soap from another RO supplier/manufacturer? Interesting.

Steve

[gmcooper]

The model 5000 has 2 membranes. They are Dow membranes and Leader sells the proper products for the Dow membranes. As far as I know the soap and acid are not able to be shipped even from the dealers with USPS, UPS, or FEDEX as they are hazardous.

[Brent]

I think the recommendation of washing only once or twice a season is going to be a problem. There may be some magic in their machines that makes them run differently than everyone else, but I am doubtful. I think as the season progresses you will get more and more fouling that a rinse does not remove. I think there are only 3 major membrane makers in the world and Dow seems to be first choice in maple, regardless of who bolts the plumbing system on them. It would be good news if they work without washing after every days use or every 10-12 hours, whichever comes first.

Keep us posted.

[gmcooper]

I know of one producer that has a small springteck RO and he only washes at end of season. He is on year 3 or 4 and I know he said he checks flow rates. I know he gets more gph than it is rated for and concentrates to 8% on one pass. He does rinse every day.

[tuckermtn]

Don't know if this is pertinent or not, but with my NSF-270's (I have one 8" and one 4") I only did one wash at the end of the season. I rinsed every night. Saw very little drop in performance over the season. Could be doing it all wrong, but its worked for me.

[802maple]

It makes it sound like washing is a hard thing. Lets see, put soap in wash tank, turn valve to wash,start machine and walk away. Then come back and rinse in the morning. I'm just being a pain in the butt, I guess. LOL

[backyardsugarer]

I have been washing after every 10 hours or so. I guess it is overkill for the 2500 model but I love it so much and the time it saves me that I want to take care of it. I am using soap from Lapierre so I hope that is not a problem. If you are plumbing for one of these you need to recirculate it back to your sap tank. It takes several passes for me to get to 8%. However the ,machine averages 90 gallons of water per hour and I am not passing any sugar.

Chris

[spud]

I have been washing after every 10 hours or so. I guess it is overkill for the 2500 model but I love it so much and the time it saves me that I want to take care of it. I am using soap from Lapierre so I hope that is not a problem. If you are plumbing for one of these you need to recirculate it back to your sap tank. It takes several passes for me to get to 8%. However the ,machine averages 90 gallons of water per hour and I am not passing any sugar.

Chris

Backyardsugarer,

Thanks for the update on your RO. I'm glad you are happy with the unit. Is there anyway of getting 8% on the first pass? Could you buy a different membrane for this unit to get 8% on the first pass? Keep us posted.

Spud

[spud]

I have the three membrane, I have only used it once, went from 2.5% to 7% in one pass. I was drawing off so much syrup I couldnt keep up, I only have 2-11 gal canners, and a few pots, and a 8 gal draw off tank. I only boiled for a few hours and drew off over 40 gal. I need to come up with a better setup there, other than packing drums, which I think is a pain..time to buy more canners I guess. I rinsed at 125 psi as recommended but it would only take 200 gal of it..hmm.

lobstafari,

Thank you and others for the information on your waterguy's ROs. This information will help me decide what size RO to buy when i set my woods up. I do plan to tap 2000-3500. I want to make sure my RO is the right size and that my evaporator is the right size for my set-up. Please keep us all posted and have a great season.

Spud

[gmcooper]

Finally have unit all plumbed. Way to many other projects going at the same time. Hoping to run tomorrow night.

[backyardsugarer]

Efficiency dropped way off last night. I am giving it a good wash and rinse at the moment. Hope i ocmes back around as I am flooded with sap.

Chris

[gmcooper]

Ran about 800 gallons thru it and had trouble getting pressure to build up. Ran at 125 and finally climed to 145. Bill said it would take a bit with new membranes. Well see how tomorrow goes. I recirculated 1.4% up to 8.5%. Did wash at end of the night.

[spud]

Bill sent me an e-mail a few day's ago saying he spent the day in northern Ohio helping someone with a 7500 model. He said they were running 225 psi and able to run 485 GPH. He said the sap went from 2%-5% first pass. So if a person had 2000 gallons of sap at 2% it would take 4.5 hours first pass giving you 5% sap. Does it run 485 GPH on the second pass or does the GPH drop on the second pass? Thank you for keeping us posted. I hope you have a great season.:)

Spud

[Dill]

Any updates on how these are working out?

[gmcooper]

Aside from a bad valve issue that is being replaced I am happy. I have been recirculating 1.5-1.8% sap up to 8.5% . About 3500 gallons so far. Really like boiling concetrate!!
These WaterGuy units are simple and do not have a lot of bells and whistles so you have more manual changes to conc, wash, or rinse. My does not have a high temp shut off for wash cylce so I have to watch that. I would request one if I bought another unit from them.

[jrgagne99]

How much for the lowest capacity model? Is that the one you have?

[gmcooper]

Have put over 12,000 gallons sap thru my Waterguy 5000 model so far. Sugar content has been low (1.5-2.0) most of the year, 1.3 last 2 days. I have taken to min of 8% and as far as 11%. Flow has slowed some from start of the season. I have washed almost every night after running it. Taking out just over 1/2 water each pass I have been at about 360 gph. Slightly less when recirculating but still over 300gph.
Not sure if they are current but prices were model 2500 $3955, 5000 $4955, 7500 $5955 or close to those numbers which includes delivery.
Mark

[spud]

GMCooper,

On a good run do you just run your RO all day making 2-3 passes and then boil in the evening? On 2% sap how many passes to get it to around 10%? I always thought that running high vac all day with the RO going at the same time would allow me to be in the woods checking for leaks. Then in the evening i could boil what sap i have after running it a few passes. Would this be the best way of doing this in your opinion? Thank you for the information on your RO i hope your happy with it and you make a bunch more syrup this season. What is your total so far?

Spud

[gmcooper]

Spud,
Here is how I have to do things. My trees are not near sugar house so all sap is hauled in. Usually I will pick up first load 400 gal early afternoon. Goes into 1000 gal insulated dairy tank. If it's a good day late afternoon 3ish I pick up second load. When that gets back I start running RO 1st pass. It feeds to my head tank 630 gal. If running I pick up 3rd load about 6pm. By then there is plenty of room in 1000 gal tank but usually RO is not quite done with other sap. Once all has been thru once I switch supply valves and recirculate from my head tank. RO feeds into top at one end and drain is on opposite end. I will keep recirculation going till tank gets about 7% then I fire evaporator. I keep recirculating for a while while boiling till sap gets to at least 8% intank or tank level gets low enough that I need all of it to boil. While recirculating I am usually bottling the previous nights syrup, getting filter press ready, and anything else that needs to be done. While recirculating I am busy and not sitting around waiting. I'm sure others do things differently but this is what works for me. Now that I am filling drums instead of bottling I actually ate supper in the house while the RO was running up to 8%.
Mark

[michiganfarmer2]

That is interesting, I know it will kill nearly every machine I have had anything to do with if you didn't wash after every use. The theory with all others is a dirty plate is a dirty plate no matter how many eggs you ate. Maybe they have run onto something. Keep us posted.

so in theory if you never stop running sap through it, yuo dont have to wash it for the entire season

[heus]

So what's the verdict? Would you guys recommend the Waterguys RO?

[gmcooper]

I plan to post more when the season is over but so far I am very happy with Waterguy RO. I would buy one again. For the money they are a good deal but they are much simpler than the major brands, Something to keep in mind when shopping for one.

[mapleack]

so in theory if you never stop running sap through it, yuo dont have to wash it for the entire season

No they still need to be washed every night they're used to maintain performance.