Garbage Can told hold sap?

[12Fancher]

I am in the process of tapping 100 trees on tubing. I am very new to this and I am trying to find an inexpensive/safe way to hold my sap. If I bought a new clean rubbermaid garbage can from Home Depot and used it for this year only do you think that would be ok?

[Lukie]

thats what i have done for three years. I pack the out side with snow and store it out side on the back side of the garage out of the sun and dip out of that works great

[red maples]

No I wouldn't recommend it. Trash cans are made of recycled plastic. I checked with rubbermaid on these 2 yrs ago and they said they are not food grade for storage. Incidental contact only. But rubbermaid does have whole food storage section that I would look into.

[Foss]

The BRUTE Series by Rubbermaid is NSF rated food grade. They work really well for me!

[jasonl6]

I used a garbage can for 3 years before i got schooled here on the trader. I would not use it now.

[western mainer]

http://www.rubbermaidproducts.com/pd.666/brute-container-44-gal-inedible-grey-4-case-special-order.aspx
This will tell you what you need to know
http://www.homedepot.com/Cleaning-Trash-Recycling-Trash-Cans/Rubbermaid/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbqqiZ1an/R-100641407/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
This is what Home Depot has. On there sight the yellow one is the only one that said,This yellow container is USDA Meat & Poultry Equipment Group Listed, assisting in complying with HACCP guidelines and is certified to NSF Standard #2 and Standard #21.
Brian

[Dennis H.]

It takes a littel looking into but as long as the garbage cans are not made of recycled plastics they usually will do for sap storage.

I used 2 new clean non-recycled cans the 1st two years I made syrup and they worked real well. I was making syrup for my self also.

Some thing to think about though is to look for some of those white 55gal barrels that juices and food stuff come in. There is a guy near by to me that sells them for $10. They are way cheaper than I a good garbage can. You could just cut the top off and use it as a lid, that way you can clean the inside easier. There also are barrels out there with screw tops I haven't been able to find them locally but you may be able to find some or someone who knows where to find them.

[brttnway]

12fancher, try to find a 275 Gallon IBC Totes...the place I get mine from claims their totes had a sugar based substance in them - used by major soda pop companies to hold their pop syrup then All totes have been steam cleaned and triple rinsed out...cost around $60.00

[red maples]

Yes there are several "Barrels guys" around here and all the barrels they range from $10-$20. I have a few whit barrels that I use. they had Sushi seasoning in them (Sugar and rice Vinegar) but its very very sweet. After I cleaned them out there wasn't even a smell at all.

[Toblerone]

I have used the gray rubbermaid cans that are stamped NSF #2 safe for food contact. I have also seen white ones around too, also stamped NSF #2.

I have yet to have any of these "barrel guys" or "tote guys" tell me EXACTLY what was previously stored in them. They all say it's food grade, or had flavoring agents, or had a "non-toxic" substance, but they never tell me the exact contents. And, for me, non-toxic is NOT the same as food-safe.

If the shipping/freight is not too much, I'll be ordering brand new barrels from U.S. Plastic Corp.

[jimsudz]

12Fancher I don't know if your the one that called me about supplying me with sap if you are hey. Go to Kutter' s Cheese in your town and buy their 55gal barrels. I beleive I used to get them for $15. Make sure they aren't used to hold cleaning acid the odor dosen't come out. Jim

[dgp219]

How long do you need to hold sap?. On a good day I can get 200 gal. from 100 taps. That's 7 30 gal trash cans. I would consider the barrels and totes previously mentioned. As your syrup operation grows, trust me, it WILL grow! :o You will want the larger containers.

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

i used new trash cans as well. i don't think it will kill you anytime soon.

for personal use thats up to you. i never had anything taste bad or make me feel ill. syrup was always good.

however if your putting hot content into trash cans then i wouldn't use them. because the heat may make things leach out much faster.

I'm not using them (trash cans) anymore because heck you can buy used food grade barrels, metal or plastic for the same cost of new trash cans, you may even get them for free if you know someone working in a food plant of some type.

[lastwoodsman]

I work in an industry that applies and uses agricultural chemicals. Their od rates are measured in parts per billion, in these levels many chemical and those used in the plastic industry are extremely toxic.

This is to the point they are gene altering. Now you may think using plastic not considered food grades are ok even if the sap is in them for a short time.

Now consider you are boiling this sap and reducing the toxic chemicals 100 fold. Make no mistake the chemicals used in products such as this are extremely toxic in low levels such as parts per billion.
If we want to keep this industry free of government regs I would try our best to keep everything food safe.

Ignorance is not bliss.

My years in the AG industry has taught me to respect chemicals to the 100th degree.
You can do what you want, but think of the families you are selling your product too. Unless you have a PHD in chemistry and understand industrial chemicals I would be very careful.

Now I am just a old farmboy without a PHD but 39 years in the ag industry has taught me alot about respecting chemicals including those used in plastics.

Think of your customers.
Woodsman

[Dennis H.]

The Barrel guy I use leaves the labels on the barrels, The ones I got had on juice concetrate in them.

A good steam cleaner would work best to clean them out.

[3rdgen.maple]

Lastwoodsman I have been preaching about garbage cans and nonfood grade junk on this website since the day I joined. Some people just dont get it at all. We get this same question every year about 20 times, "can I use a garbage can to hold my sap" THE ANSWER IS NO IT IS NOT SAFE. It is called a GARBAGE can for a reason, because it is made to hold garbarge. And all the NSF talk and other rating stuff, people really need to go and actually look at what it is, and you will be suprised to the results. This is another thread that has popped up a few times in the past as well. If I can dig it up I will post it. Some of those ratings are for food contact only and contact is just that a quick contact. Not submersing a food product for hours and days in it.

[3rdgen.maple]

Here it is gents. Note the #2 rating as it says not all is food-grade

1-PET (or PETE)
•Polyethylene terephthalate (PET) is used most often in bottles carrying carbonated drinks because it has better gas-containing properties than other plastics. It is most commonly used for soda bottles, beer and detergent.
2-HDPE
•High-density polyethylene (HDPE) is the plastic of choice for milk and juice jugs and other such item that need to be held in a rigid container. Not only does HDPE have superior moisture-resistant properties, it is also resistant to chemical and detergents used in the household. In addition to milk bottles, HDPE can be found in 5-gallon food buckets and disposable shopping bags. It is important to note that not all HDPE containers are considered food-grade. If they are not labelled specifically as "food safe," the container should be lined with a food-grade plastic bag before storing food in it.
3-Vinyl (PVC)
•Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is used in all manner of food wraps. It is transparent and strong and clings very well to food when used as a wrap, but it also allows enough oxygen through its surface for products that need to "breathe," such as fresh meats. Garden hoses and shoe soles are also often made with PVC, as are the white plastic pipes used for household plumbing.
4-LDPE
•Low-density polyethylene (LDPE) is similar to HDPE, but is more flexible and is used to make squeeze bottles and tubing. It is clear and very strong and is often used as a food wrap and garbage bags. It is also used as a coating for milk cartons.
5-PP
•Polypropylene (PP) is perfect for containing products that are bottled while hot and allowed to cool before shipment. It has a high melting point and is often used to contain foods that are packaged when hot, such as ketchup or maple syrup. It is very strong and can be used for twist-on caps and lids, such as the type on soda bottles, and drinking straws used at fast-food restaurants. Mass marketed plastic storage containers like Tupperware and Rubbermaid are often made of PP.
6-PS
•Polystyrene (PP) is an excellent insulator and is often injected with air to make foam packing products such as egg cartons, coffee cups and meat trays. More rigid forms of polystyrene are used to make cafeteria trays.
7-Other
•All other types of plastics are denoted with the "7-Other" designation, and cover a wide range of materials including acrylic, fiberglass, nylon and polycarbonate. Plastics labeled as grade 7 should be specifically noted as being "food safe" before they are used to package or handle food.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

You can get the 55 gallon blue or white barrels mentioned a couple times already and clean them good and lay then on their sides with the bungs nice and tight and cut out hole in the side aprox 12 x 12 and put hinges on one side of the cut and a latch on the other side and it makes great storage and still holds a good 50 gallon and easy access for cleaning and pumping the liquid in and out of the barrel. You can make hole larger or smaller depending on preference and they make great cheap food grade storage.

[Toblerone]

Here it is gents. Note the #2 rating as it says not all is food-grade
...
2-HDPE
•High-density polyethylene (HDPE) is the plastic of choice for milk and juice jugs and other such item that need to be held in a rigid container. Not only does HDPE have superior moisture-resistant properties, it is also resistant to chemical and detergents used in the household. In addition to milk bottles, HDPE can be found in 5-gallon food buckets and disposable shopping bags. It is important to note that not all HDPE containers are considered food-grade. If they are not labelled specifically as "food safe," the container should be lined with a food-grade plastic bag before storing food in it.
...


When I (and others) say that the Rubbermaid containers are marked NSF #2 I am NOT talking about the recycling symbol stating what kind of plastic it is. (They are actually made from LLDPE)

NSF #2 is a certification from http://www.nsf.org/ that describes the plastic as safe for food contact. While NSF #21 covers refuse containers (the cans that are not Grey, White, nor Yellow), NSF #2 covers food equipment (the Grey, White, or Yellow cans):

NSF/ANSI Standard 2: Food Service Equipment
Equipment commonly known as 'fabricated food equipment': kitchen, bakery, pantry and cafeteria units, and other food handling and processing equipment including tables and components, counters, shelves, sinks, hoods, etc."

Now, I don't want to spend the $155 to order the full text of NSF #2 certification, but it seems pretty clear they are talking about food processing equipment (i.e. o/w it would have fallen under NSF#21). I am confident that these cans (marked NSF #2) are food safe as Rubbermaid, themselves, sell a white can (also marked NSF #2) with the words "ICE ONLY" right on them. See http://www.rcpworksmarter.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?categoryCode=foodservice&subCategoryCode=foodservice_food_storage&rcpNum=9F86 And here they sell a lid for their BRUTE line of cans for easy access to FOOD stored inside them: http://www.rcpworksmarter.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?categoryCode=foodservice&subCategoryCode=foodservice_food_storage&rcpNum=9G73

Rotating clear lid with dedicated scoop storage fits on Brute containers. Patent-pending design enhances food production while improving safety compliance.

Oh, and I just found this interesting FAQ (on the Rubbermaid page) about this can:

Can I store wine or other juices in this container?

This container is not recommended for wine or juice applications due to the polyethylene material. Polyethylenes are not good vapor barrier and could affect the taste of the contents due to oxidizing.

Now notice that it does not say that it will leech harmful chemicals. It merely says that oxygen (i.e. from the air getting through the plastic) could affect the wine or juice, both of which are very acidic and susceptible to oxidation whereas maple sap is not.

I have every confidence that these containers and any container marked NSF #2 are completely safe for sap storage.

Now what about those BPAs?

[3rdgen.maple]

Toblerone not quite sure how to respond but we are all here to learn and teach and be reeducated including myself. I get a little highstrung when people start talking about using garbage can and other junk in the maple process. So thanks for helping educate. NSF is a little confusing to me and what you posted does help clear it up, there website is so confusing to browse and get anywhere on it. But and I say but and dont want to start a huge debate over all this cause this topic gets old every year and I just want to help make people aware of what they should and should not be using. Last year this thread was brought up and if i recall it was locked. There are some verbage that does not sit well with me when it comes to food grade. Such as safe for food contact, for example I read a can of spray paint that said safe for food contact and basically followed by not for food submersion, also from my understanding with all the different tyes of plastic food safe or food grade does not apply to all foods, such as acidic liquids etc. so we must be aware of what is safe for sap in that regard as well. Most all the sites I have browsed also make it pretty clear as to used plastic containers and to be aware what was in them and if a nonfood grade product was in them do not use them for food storage as they are porous and cannot be completey cleaned. I can go back and dig this up a bunch of info I have read on this topic and post quotes I just dont feel like it. The only other thing I know is that ( guess I will post a quote) Rubbermaid products are made for indoor use and not uv protected. Here is a quote from rubbermaid themselves. "Our products are designed for household use and are not UVA treated or recommended for outdoor use". And yeah I know it doesnt say cause it will leech chemicals and kill you if you do but it doesnt say it won't either, not a chance I will take at all.
Now after digging that up it brings another thought to my mind. Yeah Im going to start a war I know it but are the cage tanks we use including myself UV protected so they dont break down and leach crap into our sap? Just want all to be safe and not get any unneeded regulations pushed on us because of the plastics we should not be using. I did go on the link you posted and the only concern I would have to ask them is the uv protection. I dont know if not having Uv inhibitors and outdoor use would actually cause any leeching or not. If you or anyone does know please respond with the answer. I will be looking myself for the info.

[3rdgen.maple]

Now what about those BPAs?

On April 18, 2008, Health Canada announced that Bisphenol A (BPA)is "'toxic' to human health".
During the spring of 2008 there was numerous news articles on the CDC report finding a chemical BPA in a large percentage of Americans. BPA is used in the formulation of a reusable water bottle which had become very popular as it is unbreakable. Other studies of BPA given to animals in high doses resulted in health issues. So the two studies were linked to suggest that Americans who use water bottles containing BPA will suffer the similar types of health problems. Turn your water bottle over and look for numbers. A 7 indicates BPA.
Bisphenol-A mimics the female hormone estrogen and has been shown to cause defective cell division during development, even at extremely low doses. A growing number of studies have linked bisphenol-A to other kinds of reproductive and developmental damage, as well as breast cancer in women and prostate cancer in men. Recent research has also suggested it may play a role in the development of Alzheimer's disease and even diabetes, because of its effect in causing insulin resistance.

The demand from consumer health and environmental groups for regulatory action against BPA prompted the federal government to fast-track a screening assessment of BPA in 2007. That assessment was finally released April 18, 2008 and declared that BPA was CEPA-toxic under the provisions of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. BPA was declared to be a substance posing a danger to both human health and the environment. Health Minister Tony Clement also announced that following a 60-day comment period, the government would introduce legislation to ban the sale and importation of polycarbonate baby bottles in Canada.

[3rdgen.maple]

I had to get all riled up on this plastic topic lol. Here is another quote from an enviorement/energy Eco site.
Plastic Food Containers, Health, and Better Food Storage Solutions
Several research studies have found that when plastic comes in contact with certain foods, molecules of the chemicals in the plastic can leach into the food or beverage. Certain characteristics of the food item can make it more likely to pick up plastic molecules:

•The more liquid a food is, the more it touches the plastic, so the more opportunity it has to pick up plastic molecules.
•Acid foods, such as tomato sauce, appear to be particularly interactive with plastic.
•If you heat a food item in a plastic container—even if the container is microwave-safe—the transference of plastic from the container to the food is even more likely.
When molecules of plastic—or more properly, molecules of the chemicals that get added to plastics during manufacturing—get into our bodies, it's not a good thing. They can cause unwanted effects in the human body; for instance, some of the chemicals mimic estrogen. Estrogen, of course, is a normal, essential human hormone; but having too much of it (or the molecules that mimic estrogen) has been associated with breast cancer and other health problems. In general, chemicals that fool the body into thinking they are estrogen or other hormones are called endocrine disruptors and are best avoided.

[DrTimPerkins]

A few people have covered this topic nicely. Thank you for that.

Bottom line is...do NOT use what are commonly called and available as garbage or trash cans.

There are food-grade containers resembling "garbage cans" available, but you're not likely to find them in a hardware store (unless you special order them).

There are food-grade barrels and totes available for little more money than the "trash" barrels. But even then it is best to know what was in them....or more importantly, what WASN'T in them.

Three stories...

Several years ago somebody from California began advertising SS barrels really cheap for maple. We immediately bought one and had it shipped to us. It was one of the best constructed barrels I'd seen, but upon opening it, you could immediately smell that it had contained some chemical. Turns out to have been some ultra-high purity solventl from the electronics (computer chip) manufacturing industry. The chemical was carcinogenic. We informed the VT Agency of Ag and they got them taken off the market immediately.

We used to occasionally measure sap volume in green trash cans, but would always dump the sap (I can hear the collective grown already). We did an experiment one time where we left sap in the trash cans for a while. After about 3 days, the sap had visibly started to turn a light green color (it was not algae). After 5-6 days, it was obviously very bright green and had a very strong plastic odor. Nothing I'd want to eat. More importantly....it forced us to stop using trash cans even as temporary containers. We didn't want anyone to get the idea of using them for sap collection from us. For the same reason, we don't use old buckets as trash cans around the lab or sugarhouse....or for other such uses (the "non-food-grade" toilet brush holder). Impressions mean a lot to sugarhouse visitors who don't understand how maple is made.

We used to store our diatomaceous earth in a trash container in the sugarhouse (because it had a nice, tight-fitting lid). Even though it had several signs on the sides and on the lid saying what it is, and saying "NOT FOR TRASH", every year we have visitors who'd open it up to toss garbage in it. We've since changed to a food-grade rolling bin with a clear plastic lid, also clearly marked.

[red maples]

A few things to add.

1.NSF #2 does mean food equipment. not for food storage!!! It means it is Certified for by NSF/ANSI to be used in a food service facility. It can be cleaned and sanitized and is OK for incidental food contact meaning it can basically bumped or of something is in contact for a short period of time (not sure what that time actually is ) Not for storage.

2. In combination with #2 is #21 Refuse container. Put these 2 together and you have a a Trash can that is approved for a food processing facility.

3. If your consuming your own syrup by yourself and you don't care put it in what ever you want. your the only 1 eating it.

4. The chemicals that are leached out of plastic won't make you feel sick, or do anything serious in small doses right away, but over time those chemicals will break down cells, can store in the body and eventually create cancers organ damage and organ failure.

Just as an example there are many everyday chemical that may not cause you to get sick but over time can kill you. Arsenic... many people have it in there well water especially the region that I live in. you can't see it, smell it, or taste it, but its there, at legal levels it won't kill you now....but over time it will eventually it will lead to prostate cancer, Testicular cancer colon cancer among others. Chemicals in non-food grade containers can do just as much harm over time.

So just think twice!!!! my 5 cents.

[Foss]

I didn't realize I was posting on such a sensative topic, and would raise the hackles of folks here. It wasn't my intent...

I've been doing a small backyard (less than 20 taps) operation for the last few years, with a lot of help from information and tips from this site.

I needed a means to store my sap the last couple years as our number of taps doubled. I did a lot of on-line research and found the Brute containers listed as food-safe. I also found that they were commonly used for home-brewing operations with beer and wine by quite a few folks. Finally, on the "official" rubbermaid commercial products website, the Brute containers can be found listed under the "Food Storage-Resteraunt Supplies" tab. I thought I had done my due dilligence in researching them and that they were indeed safe for using to store sap for a couple days.

Maybe I am wrong and should re-consider using them. I appreciate everyone's input and information here... just didn't realize I'd get folks all worked up.

Hope everyone has a great year sugaing.

[whalems]

you will be fine. It is not practicle or cost effective for everyone to have to buy stainless. If Rubbermaid says in there info that it is safe then they aren't going to risk lawsuits over it its safe.:) Good luck, Mike

[Toblerone]

1.NSF #2 does mean food equipment. not for food storage!!! It means it is Certified for by NSF/ANSI to be used in a food service facility. It can be cleaned and sanitized and is OK for incidental food contact meaning it can basically bumped or of something is in contact for a short period of time (not sure what that time actually is ) Not for storage.

2. In combination with #2 is #21 Refuse container. Put these 2 together and you have a a Trash can that is approved for a food processing facility.


The fact is that, without the actual text of the NSF #2 certification, neither of us knows for sure. Rubbermaid themselves sell these NSF #2 cans for the storage of ice and food.

As for these supposed "food-grade" totes and barrels that people are using, I finally was able to find one person who would tell me what the previous contents were and says they can show me a label to that effect. I had one guy tell me that a tote had a sand-water mixture used in a dental facility to make dentures. So it must be food-safe right? I saw another one that had RV antifreeze in it that was "non-toxic." And another, on this very site, that said it had children's glue in it so it was "non-toxic." Another had and enzyme to be added to chicken feed. I talked to several other people who swore up and down they were food-safe but couldn't provide any information about the previous contents and all labels were scraped off. So I guess "food safe" means very different things to different people.

Sorry for stirring--- I didn't start it, but definitely stirred-- this conversation but I am feeling a little defensive about the choice I made to go with NSF #2 Rubbermaid containers. I try very hard to get the best, safest things for our maple operation while staying within budget. The information seemed (and still seems) to show that, while not an ideal storage container, they are safe, certainly safer than the other options of barrels and totes with unknown previous contents.

I agree, too, with Dr. Perkins that appearance can be very important and trash-can looking food containers should be phased out.

[red maples]

No offense taken what so ever. Its a good topic for discussion and we should all put in our 2 cents on these topics. I have learned alot from these indepth contraversal threads. they are very important.

I worked in restaurants for more than 20 years and I have seen more than my share of scary stuff over that time. But I do sell my product and if it means spending a little more money to do it right from a health stand point then I will try (to the best of my knowledge) my best to make it the safest I can.

one thing that I think hurts the little guy most about any small business not just maple or food grade what ever Is the Phase "proffessional grade " or "for maple use" or "For food grade purposes" or What ever as soon as a commercial/consumer product has some type of wording for a specific entity the price shoots up like crazy!!! No matter what it is. Its just an evil corporate way of getting more money out of businesses and consumers. ITs all about marketing. Although sometime you do get what you paid for!!!:(

Yes the barrels I got had labels on them when I purchased them expiration date of product and all. SO do be careful.

[3rdgen.maple]

I give up lol. You guys can go ahead and use whatever you want and if anything you use has the slightest doubt or concern please refrain from selling syrup to the public without letting them know that there is a possibility of concern. When a law is put into effect because of the use of containers not made for sap I will sit back and read all the post complaining about more regulations and just shake my head. I posted some great concerns about plastic and BPA's and the potential health risks involved and if that isnt enough questionable doubt I really dont know what is. Like Toblerone yes some containers are safer than others and the doing all the research to find the safest most cost effective solution to a persons need is good but all the info posted by rubbermaid and such does not specifically say safe for liquid submersion, yes it might say ice on the side but ice is not in its liquid form. And yes rubbermaid might say its safe but have anyone actually called or emailed rubbermaid and got in writing thats it is safe to stick one of their containers outside and fill it with sap and they can guarantee it will not leach anything harmful into the sap, I bet the response goes something like this, Are containers are made for indoor use and not recommended for outside storage and have not been tested or suggested for liquid submersion for long periods of time. So that leaves the door wide open cause they dont say no and they dont say yes and a couple key words keeps their butts safe in court. I also wonder what the judge would think when he is told well some guy on the Maple Trader says he uses them and they are safe. Let me further say Im am not trying to ruffle certain peoples feathers I am just concerned about your health and the maple industry and trying to make a point sometimes saving a buck isnt a good idea. Phasing this stuff out will only help our industry ourselves and our familys health. Is my operation perfect, heck no but every year it gets closer and closer to it as I get rid of stuff like Galvanized or my old evaporator thst had lead soldered pans.. It will be and almost is all Food grade materials made for our industry. So please just be careful and make sure for certain it is indeed safe for liquid food submersion.

[RileySugarbush]

Intrerestingly I was at a butcher shop this morning and noticed them mixing bread stuffing in a rectangular Rubbermaid tub. The grey Brute type. This is a large high quality operation with shops all over Minnesota. The material is likely the same as used in the trash cans but I don't know for sure.

I am hoping to phase out anything that seems sketchy, but I think we can go overboard in some areas and ignore others. It's unlikely that everything that touches the sap is "food grade" in lots of operations. Think about transfer buckets and pumps, hoses and even drill bits! With the recent flap about plasticizers in baby bottles and other plastic containers, how long it will be until we are discussing stainless tubing in the bush.

[Slatebelt*Pa*Tapper]

Its almost like galvanized items and lead soldering can be toxic to. Wonder what our plastic pet bowls are made of, I know they are not human but we still want are pets to be safe to.
I'd imagine that 48 qt and larger coolers are not not safe for direct storage,un fortunately I've had many bullfrog drinks served to me in the past that were made in these large coolers :mrgreen:

[red maples]

Well said 3rdgen!!!

[Toblerone]

RileySugarbush: yep, mine are branded "BRUTE" and as far as I can tell all BRUTE cans in grey, white, or yellow are safe in the production of food. There is some question if that applies to liquid food or not. Or even since ICE is okay, maybe not the water from that ice..though I guess you'd have to keep it in the freezer to prevent any of that ice from ever melting and getting "contaminated" in some way that a solid food wouldn't.

The fact is that none of here has any real authority on many of the issues. Are you sure all that tubing isn't leeching anything? Even after it's left in the woods all summer long? UV rays doing something? BPA? We all just try to pick the best choices that will fit our budget-- a budget that is not capable of buying absolutely everything from a "made exclusively for maple syrup production" manufacturer. And are those things (made for maple) independently certified in any way? Maybe that's what we need, another certifying agency that will test all these kinds of products. It could charge hefty fees for reading what the certifications mean (e.g. NSF). Maybe USDA? FDA? :)

3rdgen, you're probably right about what Rubbermaid will say since they have to cover their butts. I called one manufacturer of white buckets who was able to tell me on the phone that while they were made from new materials and were the same as food-grade buckets, they were not able to certify them or go on record at all. In this litigious society, everyone is covering their butts... but that doesn't make the container not food grade.

This year I'll be trading my perfectly clean only-ever-had-sap-in-them Rubbermaid NSF#2 cans for some old ugly blue barrels that's had soy sauce in them for who knows how long. Frankly, from a perception perspective, these barrels look more like hazardous waste to me.

Anyway.. I think I've kicked the ball back and forth enough on this thread. I'll guess we'll pick it back up again when somebody starts up the yearly thread about "trash" cans next year!

[heus]

I wish someone would address the issue of Leader 30P tubing smelling so bad of plastic. The first sap I collected from new 30P tubing last year just about made me puke it tasted so bad. Pure, 100% harsh plastic chemical taste. I posted on here and no one who responded seemed to think it was a concern. Fortunately it did not affect the taste of my syrup. However, would you drink something out of a plastic cup that made your drink taste like plastic?

[irisrhblood70]

how long can i store sap at 34 degrees?
this is a constant temp in a root cellar

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Early season you may be able to store it up to two weeks but wouldn't try to store it longer than a week and later in the season, the higher the bacteria, the less storage time you would have. Try it and see what happens and check it daily.

[skillet]

we use the white plastic 5 gallon buckets sold at walmart. I called the company and they said the white ones are food grade. However, the colored buckets are not food grade. Checked out their web site which also confirms they are food grade. The company is encore plastics corp. byesville, ohio. Here is the link to the site http://www.e-encore.com/FAQPails.html

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

so the numbers in the triangle on the bottom of plastic stuff do those have to be a certain number to use as food grade equipment such as plastic trash cans?

[Dennis H.]

If your asking about trash cans, rubbermaid makes a FDA approved one, kind of pricey though.
I used some rubbermaid ones when I 1st started making syrup, they were not made from recycled plastics.
Not sure about those number and triangles. I just know that you want to stay away from anything that is made from recycled plastic.

[Toblerone]

It is my understanding that the number inside the triangle identifies only the polymer used in making the container. It is there primarily for recycling (hence the three-arrow symbol). It has no bearing on whether or not the container is food grade.

A food-grade container is made from virgin (non-recycled) material and does not contain any pigment, dyes, plasticizers, or other chemicals that could contaminate food. The majority of food-grade buckets are made from HDPE #2, but that's only because the majority of all buckets (food-grade or not) are made from HDPE #2.

A quick check at the grocery store for those symbols will show you that food-grade containers can be made from just about all of them: PET, PS, HDPE, LDPE, etc., but that doesn't not mean any container made from those materials will be food-grade.

It also matters what the bucket's previous contents were (if any). You don't want to collect sap in an antifreeze bucket for instance.

[DrTimPerkins]

It is my understanding that the number inside the triangle identifies only the polymer used in making the container. It is there primarily for recycling (hence the three-arrow symbol). It has no bearing on whether or not the container.

Excellent description Dave.

[3rdgen.maple]

Excellent try Flatlander you made my day.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I got a bunch of Rubber maid garbage cans from a commercial bakery and they were food grade and white. I also have ones that are printed from the factory inedible they look cool on the curb full of garbage.

[Toblerone]

Excellent try Flatlander you made my day.

Wait. Did I just get suckered into replying to this already-beaten dead-horse of a thread? If so, touche sir!

And, thanks for the props, Dr. Perkins.

[3rdgen.maple]

Yes you did. Flats is a funny guy.

[xyz5150]

I got a bunch of Rubber maid garbage cans from a commercial bakery and they were food grade and white. I also have ones that are printed from the factory inedible they look cool on the curb full of garbage.

Haynes glad to see you have finally got the terms food grade, inedible and edible figured out.:lol:

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

i woulndt resurect a dead horse to beat it again would I:D

[Haynes Forest Products]

xyz My wife uses all those words describing my cooking:)

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

xyz My wife uses all those words describing my cooking:)

thats good it means you never have to cook

back in HS we had this Mexican PE coach and one day class was being held in the gym and he turns and says" ok boys see all those females down there (other end of gym) they should be home cooking barefoot and pregnant" a lot of laughs then and still today but he could never get away with that comment today