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Brent
01-31-2011, 08:54 PM
Well I've been screwing around for nearly 6 months now trying to figure out what to insulate the new-to-me arch with.

I never found an insulating value for arch-board, and after months of searching, finally found a page with lots of materials compared. Firebricks are almost useless as insulation. Ceramic boards are 13 times better at insulation than fire bricks and have much much lower thermal capacity. meaning they will not hold heat and will cool down faster than brick.

So today I bit the bullet and ordered 2" archboard from Unifrax. Made in Niagara Falls. About 20 bucks a sq ft. I did find one of the online sellers mentioned here on the forum was $5. cheaper ... for Chinese boards.
I'll cover that with 1" brick for protection from log throwing firemen.


About a 6 weeks from now I'll revisit this post and tell you if I still scorch the sides where I slop syrup.

PS I was astonished to see how high they rated "Thinsulate" that you get in clothing. Better than urea foam boards !

RileySugarbush
01-31-2011, 11:04 PM
Brent,

Could you share a link to that page?

Brent
02-01-2011, 12:01 AM
I've looked on hundreds of pages to finally discover this and now I can't find it again. You can see a good table by searching wiki with "R-value insulation" but this only has clay bricks near the bottom and vacuum at the top.

I'm still trying to find the euraka page that had the fire bricks on it. When I do I'll post it.

Haynes Forest Products
02-01-2011, 12:36 AM
Brent I wonder what the life span of arch board is in relation to the abuse bricks will take over 10-15-20 years.

nymapleguy607
02-01-2011, 08:05 AM
Brent
Something you might want to try is to cover the sheet metal sides with aluminum foil then do your arch board and the another layer of foil and finally your brick. I did this a couple years ago on my old homemade arch and it did help keep heat inside the arch. I am doing the same thing on arch since I had it taken apart to install the AOF manifolds.

Brent
02-01-2011, 01:06 PM
here is one link that shows thermal conductivity of fire bricks.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/articles/84/firebricks-heavy-dense-fire-clay-bricks

I'm still trying to find the best table. Jeeshh we sure to dump a lot of file addresses into our browers history in a month !

Brent
02-01-2011, 01:12 PM
Haynes

The durability of insulation was very much on my mind. When I did the Phaneuf a few years ago I used the green 1" archboard and 2" bricks. It stood up ok but I was un-impressed with the insulating properties.

Before last season I rebuilt and put in vermiculite boards. They broke very easily while cutting and placing them and were a bit better than the green archboard. When I sold the evaporator after one year of use with the vermiculite, I removed the bricking to make it light enough to move and the vermiculite had stood up very well, despite being fragile when cutting. It looked like new.

I was turned off the idea of using ceramic blankets because I was afraid that over time they would compress. The samples I got of ceramic board looked to be very durable. Unifrax boasts that they sell most of this product to industrial uses, up to and including neuclear reactors, glass factories, heat treat ovens etc.
So I put my money on this Duraboard.

Time will tell. Hope this is not one of those
"it seemed like a good idea at the time" things.

Brent
02-08-2011, 09:00 PM
I finally found the site that had the insulation values of fire brick isulating firebrick, and ceramic fibre

see http://www.diamondbackironworks.com/page/page/4707712.htm

From what I've read, insulating firebrick is very fragile and would never take the beating when we toss in the wood, so regardless of what you use, its that, at least in the firebox, we need clay firebricks. While the vermiculite board I tried last year was effective once in place, I did damage it quite a bit just in the cutting and fitting. Likely lost 20% that way. This ceramic board stuff is in another league. (price wise too)

Here's the chart


PS I got the Unifrax ceramic RG board today. It is very tough ... not enough that you would use it without brick protection, but under the flues, I think I'll only use this board ... if I can get the spacing right.

Brent
03-20-2011, 11:56 AM
First boil update

We boiled about 6 hours yesterday (3 of them early early today) with the arch insulated with this Unifrax ceramic board in the rebuilt Inferno arch.

The results are great. I could put my hand on the sides of the arch anywhere without getting burned. Just under the rails you wouldn't want to do more than a quick touch, but two inches under the rail you could leave your hand on it for several seconds.

We managed to do the usual amount of slopping of syrup on the sides. Today it all wiped of in 2 minutes ... no scorching.

We put in the 2" boards and only put firebirck up to within 6" of the rails. I'll brick up to the top after I get
the tubes for the air over fire system installed.

Needless to say the walls of the sugar shack were in no danger of getting charred. The walls down the back side are only 2' from the arch. I could stand between them comfortabley for as long as I wanted.

Recommend this stuff very highly.

BryanEx
03-20-2011, 01:02 PM
Really appreciate the update on this Brent. Keep us posted as the season progresses.

Quabbin Hill Farms
03-31-2011, 09:11 AM
Hey Brent where did you buy the creamic board, I have been using the ceramic blanket but i must have too much heat as it breaks down by the end of the uear and turns hard aand brittle

Brent
03-31-2011, 10:03 AM
Go to www.unifrax.com in Niagara Falls

They have lots of different products.

I chose Duraboard LD-RG
2" thick, x 2' x 4' and got 48 square feet, 6 sheets for
just under $ 1000. The and it was perfect to do the complete 30" x 8' arch.

This stuff is so good that the entire arch can be touched anywhere. The syrup that spashes on the sides just dries up. No scorching. In fact the stuff that I spilled on the sides of pan and run down into the gasket does not scorch.

I love it for safety not to mention the heat efficiency

Call Debbire Haseley 800-635=4464
email dhaseley@unifrax.com