Got my check valves today

[backyardsugarer]

I picked up 700 check valves and stubbies for my woods today. They seem well built and pretty slick. Is their a trick to installing them while tapping? Can you break the fingers on the CV while tapping it into the tree? Should you tap in the CV first and then twist on the stubby? Anyone with exprience or a tip I would appreciate it. I am doing half the woods with CV's and the other the new Lappiere seasonal spouts to compare.

One more thing, since I sprung for these can I tap in the middle of February? The season is usually over here by April 5 or earlier (Rochester, NY). Thanks

Chris

[collinsmapleman2012]

I picked up 700 check valves and stubbies for my woods today. They seem well built and pretty slick. Is their a trick to installing them while tapping? Can you break the fingers on the CV while tapping it into the tree? Should you tap in the CV first and then twist on the stubby? Anyone with exprience or a tip I would appreciate it. I am doing half the woods with CV's and the other the new Lappiere seasonal spouts to compare.

One more thing, since I sprung for these can I tap in the middle of February? The season is usually over here by April 5 or earlier (Rochester, NY). Thanks

Chris

tap the cv's in until the sound they make changes, then insert the stubby and give it a 1/4 turn. yes, the fingers do break, rubber mallets work well, or put a piece of scrap wood over and tap in. should be putting in 2000 or more this year for school. did 500 last year. tapping in mid feb. would be great, thats about when we are going to tap in.

[Dennis H.]

I was told and it worked for me last year to install the CV's just like a normal tap with a hammer. Then push on the stubby. I give the stubby a 1/4 turn while pushing it on by hand. Some have said that they tap the stubby on with a hammer but the twist and push worked for me.

I installed my CV's while the vac was running and found that I had to be carefull when installing the stubby. If I caught a finger that holds the ball in the CV with the stubby the vac would suck the ball back into the tubbing, then you have a pain finding where the ball is lodged and blocking vac.
I understand they improved the design alittle so not sure if the redesign solves that problem.

Oh yeah I use a dead blow hammer that I picked up at Harbor freight. It was the smallest one they have. I hated the thought of a metal hammer on plastic.

[collinsmapleman2012]

[QUOTE=
I installed my CV's while the vac was running and found that I had to be carefull when installing the stubby. If I caught a finger that holds the ball in the CV with the stubby the vac would suck the ball back into the tubbing, then you have a pain finding where the ball is lodged and blocking vac.
I understand they improved the design alittle so not sure if the redesign solves that problem.

[/QUOTE]

i spent a lot of time figuring this out and playing with it, they always are at the saddle. had one saddle with 8 check balls, but the kids that tapped that section lack in the common sense dept. they never thought that metal breaks plastic easy and it never harms to just jam the stubby on. :confused::emb: oh well.
if a ball does get stuck, its easiest to replace the saddle. it takes a long time to get the ball out, just make sure that all the balls are out of the line before replacing. i think there will be less problems now though because of the redesign.

[DrTimPerkins]

1. Drill a 5/16" hole straight into the tree ~ 2-2.5" deep
2. Insert CV adapter, hammer in until it changes sound (tink, tink, thunk)
3. Align and insert Stubby onto CV adapter while pushing it on with a 1/4 twist.
4. Tap "lightly" with a hammer to seat Stubby onto adapter.

This years version of the CV adapter is made of a more resilent material (food grade nylon with an impact modifier) that makes it far less likely to break. The fingers are also a wee bit thicker, so along with the impact modifier it makes them harder to break as well. Finally, the new version of the Stubby has an internal chamfer so that aligning them on the adapter is a little easier to do without catching a finger (hard to catch the Stubby on a CV finger unless you're way off). The old Stubby works on the new CV (and vice versa), but you just have to be a little more careful when aligning the Stubby to the adapter. If you tap with the vacuum off, you're far less likely to suck a ball down the line. If you do happen to notice a finger break, replace the adapter.

[220 maple]

Dr.Tim,
I agree with all your check valve info except the hole depth. We quit drilling 2 inches several years ago because we got sweeter water only going 1 inch to a inch and a half. I can't remember who told us that the sugarwater is only in the last 3 growing seasons and beyond that is dead wood. Maybe false info that we have been operating with ? However we have never been below 2.2 sugar content for any season that we drilled at the inch to inch and half depth, there is a large camp about 50 miles from our camp that drills every hole 2 and a half inches and they complain every year that their sap is not very sweet. They usually avg. 1.5 to 1.7 sugar content. Have their been any studies done on hole depth and sugar content?

Thanks
Mark 220 Maple

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Hey Dr. Tim, have you heard anything on the taps leader did back in Dec. with the CV's. Have they dried up or does any one know the answer yet.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr.Tim,
I agree with all your check valve info except the hole depth. We quit drilling 2 inches several years ago because we got sweeter water only going 1 inch to a inch and a half. I can't remember who told us that the sugarwater is only in the last 3 growing seasons and beyond that is dead wood. Maybe false info that we have been operating with ? However we have never been below 2.2 sugar content for any season that we drilled at the inch to inch and half depth, there is a large camp about 50 miles from our camp that drills every hole 2 and a half inches and they complain every year that their sap is not very sweet. They usually avg. 1.5 to 1.7 sugar content. Have their been any studies done on hole depth and sugar content?

The majority of "wood" in a tree is dead, but is functional that way. Only a relatively small portion of the "wood" tissue is living. The "rays" (the lines that cut across the rings) that store starch and convert it to sugar are often living. The "vessels" (the larger of the small holes you see in the tree rings) that carry the water or sap are dead, as are the fibers (all the tissue between the vessels, these are the smaller holes).

To be clear....when I said 2" deep in my earlier post, I mean the drill bit is set to 2" deep from the bark with a bit stop (either a metal stop or piece of tubing on the bit to restrict depth), since that is what most people refer to. So on larger trees with thicker bark you're probably only getting 1.25-1.5" deep into the wood, which is the actual measure that matters as far as sap flow goes.

Taphole depth on vacuum is becoming shallower and shallower (which is a good thing to some degree). 1.5" into the wood is fine as long as you have good vacuum. Basically the shallower you can get away with, the smaller the wound in the tree.

Maple tree sapwood (the wood that continues to transmit sap) will extend far into the trunk (unlike oak and ash), however the deeper you go, the more some of the vessels will be embolized or plugged. Not a lot, but some. As for sugar content...slightly more will be in outer rings (not just 3 yrs), but again, this is relatively minor. The variation you mention from one bush to another is probably totally unrelated to taphole depth, but is just normal variation in tree genotype (genetics) and phenotype (environment).

Yes, there have been studies done on taphole size and taphole depth. Briefly, on 5/16" tapholes with vacuum, a 1.5" deep (in the wood) taphole will yield 98% that of a 2.5" taphole and a 3/4" taphole will yield 86% that of a 1.5" taphole. No difference in sap sugar content. This is different on gravity, where depth has a much larger effect on sap yield.

[DrTimPerkins]

Hey Dr. Tim, have you heard anything on the taps leader did back in Dec. with the CV's. Have they dried up or does any one know the answer yet.

Hard to say....at -20 deg F the sap doesn't run too much. They'll know better when the weather warms up. Most importantly...will they still be running well at the end of the normal season.

[Groves]

This is different on gravity, where depth has a much larger effect on sap yield.

Now my ears are perked. Should I break out the extra long bits on my gravity trees?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Hard to say....at -20 deg F the sap doesn't run too much. They'll know better when the weather warms up. Most importantly...will they still be running well at the end of the normal season.

No Doc I am from AZ but I know sap doesnt flow when cold hehehe, just didn't know if anything had been said.

[DrTimPerkins]

Now my ears are perked. Should I break out the extra long bits on my gravity trees?

There have been a large number of studies looking at taphole depth and yield under gravity (buckets or gravity tubing). In general, the deeper you go, the more sap you get, but with diminishing returns proportionally as you get deeper. The recommended depth years ago was 3" or slightly less. Now, I believe people suggest 2.5" (into the wood) for GRAVITY and 1.5" (into the wood) for VACUUM.

This is somewhat influenced by the number of taps you put on a tree. The more taps, the less benefit from a deeper taphole.

The problem with going very deep is that you rapidly start to increase the chances that you will hit stained wood, which will reduce your sap yield. Deep tapholes on those old, slow-growing trees is NOT a good thing.