sap sacks

[plumber]

Still trying to hunt down the sap sacs that Isaac sells from ohio.Made a 100 of my own metal sac holders like leader sells.looking to up my number of taps this 2011 season. Tired of buckets.

[Monster Maples]

Have about 1000 of them sitting in my garage!!!!!

[morningstarfarm]

you have pics of the holders you made? Would love to see them...thinking about making some of my own....thanks

[syrupdreamer]

I found these pics of sack holders while searching the internet.

[user587]

This is wild - I had the exact same idea (as the photo in syrupdreamers post), and I even made a prototype. I used a zip-tie to hold the sac to the pipe (not sure what is in the photo). It was tricky to get the groove right - I started with a round-end cutter on the shaper, but the bag would slide out. A dado blade square-bottom is better. Have to get the width and depth just right for the tie-wrap size.

I also found a slip-on plastic cap (from caplugs.com) that I used to keep debris out. The cap was a perfect fit. I hung them on plastic treesaver taps. The big cost save is the spile - a treesaver costs less than $0.50.

I ended up not going further because I found a good alternative at low cost. But I may make some over the summer if I need more holders.

[wcproctor]

That looks like pvc pipe. If so i would use a pvc cuppling and cut it in half so you can get two out of it , then the bag will not slide off.

[morningstarfarm]

made my protoype holders today...5" piece of 2" pvc pipe...cut a hole in the side 2" down from top with 1 1/8" hole saw...use a test cap from home cheapo for the top...23 cents for the cap...first I cut a groove in the pipe for a zip tie....looked good but with a full bag it was iffy for strength...so I went to a hose clamp..works very nicely and a tree saver tap fits in it very nicely and locks the holder to the tree...now I just have to make about 75 more....and need to get bags...hope this helps...

[user587]

Friendly thoughts - be sure that one can a) install the holder and sac after installing spile into tree, b) conveniently empty the sac (either removing the holder from the tree or just tipping into bucket) and c) won't blow off easily when the sac is empty.

Getting the holder on and off the treesavers may be tricky depending on where the hole in the PVC is.

[morningstarfarm]

mounts nicely in the 1 1/8" hole..I drilled a 3/8" hole first and cut the big hole half way through it so it acts as a notch for the spile to rest in..a 1-2" piece of tube and it locks right on..shouldn't be bothered by the wind...pick bag up and off and pour it right out..the test caps sit on it nicely and have a little grab tab to pull them out if they freeze in...should be as close to weather tight as you can get..was suprisingly manageable with a foodsaver bag full of 3 gallons of water...only drawback might be freezing but I think its worth the try....

[metalhead62]

i was wondering if u r using the plastic or metal tree saver tap morningstarthis would be a nice cheap way to expand if it would work with the 35cent plastic taps

[morningstarfarm]

plastic tree savers..I figure the cost each is approx......
.30 for the tap
.23 for cap
.30 for sak
.25 for pipe
1.00 for the clamp..unless someone knows where toget 2" clamps cheaper...
so around 3 bucks total....

[3rdgen.maple]

Well if you look at it that way your savings is minimal. Ive seen aluminum pails for sale for 3 bucks and then you buy the tap. Minus all the labor invovled and having to replace the sap sacks every year. I thought the idea was very cool but now that I see the numbers and the time invovled it will cost you more in a couple seasons versus just buying some used buckets.

[metalhead62]

cut a grove in pvc take a piece of tie wire baling wire whatever twist with pliers till tight( just before breaking) may take a few tries to get the feel it will hold as good as any clamp

[morningstarfarm]

good idea...and the attraction to me was the ability to scan the volume in the bag without stopping to physically handle each bucket...I can drive right by without even stopping until I see one ready to empty...

[Toblerone]

This is a great idea. Thanks for sharing. I've not seen used buckets + covers + tap come in anywhere near as cheap as this. Even rusty old galvanized buckets can't compete with this. And an added bonus: no washing/sanitizing a zillion buckets every year.

[benchmark]

Not a bad idea, the only thing i can see that would be a hassle is there is no handle attached. I made over 150 of the metal sack holders like the factory built ones one year, run out of time, and didn't get around to getting handles on some of them. It was a pain to lift a full bag of sap off the tree without a handle...

[morningstarfarm]

with the 2" pipe its small enough to just grab the bag under the pipe and carry it that way...balances pretty nicely

[3rdgen.maple]

This is a great idea. Thanks for sharing. I've not seen used buckets + covers + tap come in anywhere near as cheap as this. Even rusty old galvanized buckets can't compete with this. And an added bonus: no washing/sanitizing a zillion buckets every year.

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=10762
They are out there. In fact I bought all my aluminum buckets for 3 bucks each. I do however like morningstarfarm inginuity for the holders. Not having to clean buckets is a bonus but buying new sacks every year can add up. So you got to consider its an annual cost versus a one time cost for a bucket.

[metalhead62]

3rdgen this is true but if time is worth anything not sure u can wash 250 buckets 4 $50 or store them my only ? is the tree rats

[SDURF]

I like the sap sack holder with the pvc . How do you dump ice without taking them apart?

[Grizz747]

What kind of cap did you use ? @ 23 cents?

[Toblerone]

I made about 6 or 7 of these today, and I found that the bottom of a pop/soda can, cut off and somewhat crimped around the cut edge fits nicely on top of the 2" pipe. I can't wait to try them out.

SDURF, I just leave the ice in the bag and don't attempt to empty it. Even with the regular sap sack holders. There was a post here somewhere saying that, with the sugar locked up in the ice, it's worthwhile to keep the ice rather than tossing it. I also don't want to risk puncturing the sack trying to get the ice out.

Good luck everyone!

[maple connection]

I use the 2" pvc bagholder. I use my 14" grinder chop saw with a 1/4" wide grinding wheel to put in the grove for the zip tie to hold the bag onto the pvc. Never had a problem with one falling off. Use the schedule 40 pipe not the thin walled pipe and grind the groove 1/2 the thickness of the pipe. Works great for me. For the spile I use the 7/16 to 5/16 plastic spile adaptor.
I don't use a cap. Pretty good idea with the pop can.

[morningstarfarm]

fond them at home cheapo...they are glue in test caps..used for pressure testing pipe...23cents each they are bright yellow too...fit right inside the pipe with a lip..but I like the idea of the soda cans..big plus with the caps is I can fit like 30 in my pocket no problem and they have a little tab that you can grab to pull them out if frozen...

[Brian Ledoux]

FYI - I am going to try the and make 100 of the 4" long pvc pipe sap sak holders with stainless steel hose clamps. I found the stainless steel hose clamps on ebay for $62. (for 100 of them) Probably not as cheap as the plastic zip ties. Would have tried those had I read about them sooner!

[morningstarfarm]

brian..how did the holders work out? I just finished making 50 of them for my sons school...I'll put them up next week...

[Brian Ledoux]

Hose clamps just arrived today so didn't make them all yet. I did make one with a hose clamp that I picked up at home depot though. I filled one of my bags & tested it and it seemed like it will work fine. The water didn't pour out of the bag 100% perfectly. I think if I lower the hose clamp it might be better. All in all, I think the pvc holders will work fine.

Been looking for a cheap way to add a cap to the pvc. The caps I saw at home depot were like 79 cents so with 100 taps, that is more than I want to spend. There has to be a better way to add a cap....cheap.

[morningstarfarm]

go to home depot..the glue in test caps are .23cents...for the 2" pipe..thats what I used and it worked very well...they are bright yellow too...

[Toblerone]

Here's a pic of one I made. Under testing, it held 3 gallons of water without any problems. The cap is the bottom of a pop can crimped inward to grip the pipe. I'll know next week how these hold up!

[morningstarfarm]

NICE..how long are the tubes? and how did you attach the bags? I just got 100 hose clamps on e-bay for .35 ea for the 2" pipe..I'm still hoping for a good answer on using zip ties or something..my efforts on that front have been mixed results so far..I cant seem to get them to be reliable with the 4 gallon sack full..so far cost each with tap is around a buck each total with the clamp, tube, bag, cap, and tap...not too bad..but as a cheap yankee I would like to do better :D:lol:

[Toblerone]

I cut the 2" pipe to between 4 and 5 inches. Then, using the table saw, I put a notch about half the thickness of the pipe all the way around the pipe, about 1" from the bottom. I just set the blade about half the thickness then turned the pipe above the blade until it removed all the material for the groove. I then had to repeat it again 1/8" away to make the groove wide enough (1/4") for a zip tie to fit. Then I just attached the bag with a zip tie.

When testing, the bag holds only 3 gallons-- I assume because of the restriction at the top. When I didn't leave enough slack above the zip tie, the bag did slip a little where the bag was bunched up. So I re-did it with more slack, and folded the slack down, covering the zip tie. If it slips again, another zip tie on top of this folded down slack might be in order. Or a big rubber band would do.

I'll know next week! We're tapping on Saturday!

[user587]

For the screw-clamp style - no groove in the pipe, right? (just clamp directly over the bunched-up sac onto the PVC?). Or is a groove required under the screw clamp?

thx...

[user587]

Here's another option for caps - www.mcmaster.com p/n 4491K29 (double check the size). $9.09 per 50 pcs ($0.18ea)

[Toblerone]

You could try it w/o the groove, but it might slip off. The groove provides something for the clamp or zip tie to bight into and hold. It would be essential for the zip tie.

[Brian Ledoux]

made a bunch of the sap sak holders out of PVC pipe. Same design as Toblerone's post below. Only thing is, I think I want to go and get some caps. Because of the way these holders sit so close to the trees, I am thinking I will have an issue with rain water dripping down the tree and into the sap saks, leaving a bag of yellow rain water! I looked already for the cheap caps at home depot, the employees could not direct me to any for .29 cents. I will try a different home depot and see if I have better luck though. - brian

[Homestead Farm]

Made 50 of these- they work great. No more sap soaking my pants legs from using square buckets, no bugs in my sap, and a lot easier to spot. To secure the bag I made two grooves a little over 1/4 each (3 passes each with a table saw blade while turning the tubing). Put on the bag, then an 11" zip tie on the top groove, folded the bag over 1", and the second zip tie covers it all on the bottom groove. I might lose a cup of capacity but I'll never worry about it slipping. For the caps I used the beer cans left almost full length with a vertical slot 1/2 wide going from the cut end to about 3/4" from the top. Works good, keeps out rain, but I had 2 blow off. I think I'll bend the tabs at the bottom two sides of the slots inward to give it more grip.

[morningstarfarm]

they should have them..I just bought 50 in Plaistow's store and 50 in seabrooks store this week...they are in the plumbing section with all the pvc fittings..and called glue in test caps...actually for 2" pipe they were .21 ea....

[Brian Ledoux]

Something I noticed with the pvc bag holders... I hung a few more late yesterday, and the wind was blowing so hard they all fell off! All except one. what I realized was that wind seems to affects the sap saks more than buckets. Seems to help if you drive the health spout tap in just enough so taht the pvc pipe barely fits between the tree and the part of the tap that is sticking up. (part that looks like dorsal fin)

[Toblerone]

We had 20-30 mph winds and I had a couple blow off. I think I need to make the main hole a little smaller. All I had was a 1.25" hole saw at the time. Also, I should make the smaller hole/notch at the top a little bigger and farther up so it slides down over top the tap more. Now that I have a little sap, though, I try to just leave a little in the bag to weigh it down. Otherwise these things are working great. Now I need to make a few more!

[Ahnohta2]

Is there a Best way to drill hole in side of pvc without cracking pipe, i have tried 3 different type bits, but have cracked 20% of these. Could those that have made these PVC bag holders post some pix on this thread? Is there a better 2" pvc over another that will take drilling. Some of the discount home supply centers sale only cellualr core type. I assume it has lots of air bubbles on inside to make it w/ less plastic thus cheaper. thanx a

[whalems]

Drill press go slow and bring the pipe inside to warm up. Cold pvc is very brittle. Good luck, Mike

[C.Wilcox]

Is there a Best way to drill hole in side of pvc without cracking pipe, i have tried 3 different type bits, but have cracked 20% of these. Could those that have made these PVC bag holders post some pix on this thread? Is there a better 2" pvc over another that will take drilling. Some of the discount home supply centers sale only cellualr core type. I assume it has lots of air bubbles on inside to make it w/ less plastic thus cheaper. thanx a

I used a 7/8" Forstner bit on the drill press to make mine and used plain old Schedule 40 PVC from Menards. I sped the drill speed up a bit just to make sure it cut clean. I wouldn't try using a spade bit on it. I really don't see that working well and definitely do it on a drill press so you can control the feed rate into the plastic.

[GramaCindy]

10944

a friend made these for me yesterday. I was planning on using the 5/16 health spiles. I think I will need to add a keyhole or smaller hole above the tap hole. Any suggestions?

[Whatasap]

I've made up 50 of those holders and used most for going on 2 years. I used 3/4 and 1/2 in. Forstner bits in cordless drill never cracked one, sched 40 pvc. I would def go with keyhole for tap way better in wind!

[GramaCindy]

Couldn't get the drill press to work with the forstner bits. Used a Robo tool, hang bags, windy. All are down. I have an idea that I will put into action tomorrow. A new "Hair tie" put under the tap next to the tree, and brought up over the top of the PVC, then strapped down under the tap. Wish me luck

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I used a 3/4" hole saw, made 40 of them no problems