Experienced Welders, will this welder do what I want?

[holey_bucket]

I am looking at a Hobart Ironman 250 MIG [GMAW] / flux cored [FCAW] - used. The specifications say it welds down to 22ga, and they also say it will do SS. It doesn't specifically say "SS 22ga". The price might be right. Would this be able to weld 22ga pans, assuming a proficient welder?

Also, if you have any other recommendations for a welder that would do what I want, that would be in a reasonable price range, (new or used) I would welcome your input. (around $1,000 would be my max for the time being.)

Description on Hobart website (http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/ironman250/)
Owner's manual (http://www.hobartwelders.com/om/6digit/o192440w_hob.pdf)

Thanks!

[Bucket Head]

If the price is right, get it. You can do a lot of work with a machine like that. However, its not the machine for welding thin stainless. A TIG welder is what you want for thin stuff. There are many decent used ones out there for $1000. I recently purchased a very gently used Lincoln Squarewave 175 TIG for $850. Although I think 22ga. will still be difficult for you.

The Hobart machine, with .025 stainless wire in it, would do fine with 16, and possibly 18ga. buts thats probably it. For comparison, I welded my flue pan (pictures on photobucket) with a Millermatic 150 MIG and .025 and that was 16ga. stainless. The Hobart would do that fine. Some will say the 16ga. is too thick for pans, but it is not. I get high 30's to low 40's gallon per hour evaporation rates with mine, and thats comparable to the factory made units of similar size. Just food for thought.

Get the Hobart if you can "settle" for heavier pans. If its "22ga. or bust", keep looking for a TIG unit.

Steve

[holey_bucket]

I'm not dead-set on 22ga at all. Just thinking ahead. In reality, ill probably have 18ga, because I have a friend with some he's giving to me.

Just knowing there are TIG Welders out there within or near my price range makes me think i should hold off for a bit, keep shopping the classifieds. Thank you for your input. -makes me think that hobart price might not be such a "deal". They were asking $1100 I think. Came with a hip height tank with about 50% full CO2, and a larger empty tank.

[Bucket Head]

Thats not a bad price for that- its a decent sized machine. But if thin stainless and/or aluminum is mainly what your going to tackle, then keep shopping. Reasonable TIG machines are out there, just not in the quantity of the standard arc and MIG machines.

Let us know what you get and how it works on whatever material you go with. Its always good to hear others results. Good luck.

Steve

[mark bolton]

I purchased a 100 amp DC Inverter Welder for $300.00 and a TIG Torch and argon regulator for $150.00 then rented an argon tank. Not too much money for a new TIG unit, probably not as good as a Lincoln, Hobart, MIller or other name brand but it works well for me with small projects.
Mark

[Paperman]

As mentioned you dont need a special rig for tig if you can afford all the great stuff. A standard "buzz box" stick welding power supply is all you really "need". It will make you work a bit harder without the high freq start and foot pedal for heat out put but is done all the time. In my papermill that is what 90% of our stainless pipe in welded with. Stick machine with tig torch and bottle. Once you set your self up its not to bad. Also look at a community collage welding course. They will give you instruction on how to do it right and you would have use of their machines during open shop/lab time to build your pans. You could drive to Ludington and play with mine for a while. RK

[Big_Eddy]

For what you need the Lincoln mentioned above would be a great machine, but an even better little machine is the Miller Maxstar 150. Look for the STL or STH models. These are inverter machines, weigh about 13 lbs, run off both 110 and 220V, and can be used for both stick welding (for your arch and TIG welding) The STH model has High Frequency start and is a bit pricier, but the STL model with Lift-Arc start will do the job fine.

You'll find these used for under $1000, including either a foot pedal or a fingertip control.

Highly recommended.

[michiganfarmer2]

interesting thread.

Thanks for the expert information

[holey_bucket]

Thank you for all the excellent information! I feel much more confident that I can actually find something to suit my needs.

Question: How much gas will I go through? I mean, lets say I'm using it just a little more than average hobby guy - trying to practice, practice, practice. How long would a small tank of Argon last?

[Paperman]

Your going to flow between 15-20 CFH for your arc time plus some pre-post flow. The gas is not flowing during your prep/fit time unless you forget to turn it off. (only for those with torch valves. Peddle machines will give you a pre-post flow and then turn the gas off automatic)

[Big_Eddy]

I did a lot of practicing and built my flue pan and my syrup pan on one tank of argon. My tank is about 2' tall and holds 58CF. Most better TIG welders have a build in solenoid, so they automatically turn on and off the gas flow when the arc starts. A tank refill is about $40 but can vary a lot region to region, who you are, and where you fill.

Remember to close the tank valve when you're done for the day. The solenoids work well but they aren't perfect. You can easily drain a tank overnight due to a spec of dirt in the solenoid.

[wegnerwelding]

I'm a welder/fabricator for my primary employer, and also own/ operate WEGNER METAL WORKS.

We use all Lincoln at work, MIG, TIG, Fluxcore...etc. I run all Lincoln in my own shop. Miller is great too.
I did a lot of homework before I purchased any of my welders. I have had both Miller and Lincoln, I personally like Lincoln. Since the new regime took over Miller they have been building cheap into their units. Newer Lincolns are better bang for your buck IMO.

I would stay away from off brand welders. Although they may be decent quality, IF I need anything for my welder, torch...etc. The local welding supply house has everything in stock. VS. trying to hunt down replacement parts..etc. Sooner or later you will have to replace a whip,liner, nozzle, tips and my advise would be. Get the best you can afford and you won't regret it.

Tig would be the best route to go, but is difficult to master. MIG is the best entry level process, but doesn't have the adjustablility on the fly that the TIG does. I MIG welded my first set of pans that were 18 GA. and to my knowledge they are still in use. So it is OK to MIG them.

Keep your eyes on Craigslist or classifieds. I see welders for sale on there all the time. If you aren't in a hurry.

[sweetwoodmaple]

I bought a cheap off brand Stick/TIG unit at Christmas time. I have about $400 in everything. It does not have a foot pedal. I would like at some point to upgrade to a quality unit, but even if I throw away $300 after this project, it was worth learning.

I am just finishing up a piggy back pan with 18 ga stainless. (See the SAPerator thread)

I spent about 30 hours practicing before touching my pan, and honestly that was about 70 hours too short! Perhaps I'm an uncoordinated person, but it does seem to take time to master...especiallly with no foot pedal.

I'm at around the 50 hour mark on welding the pan, with another 8 hours or so to go. With all the practicing and welding, I'm almost through my 2nd bottle of Argon.

I would not recommend any thinner than 18 ga for your first project. I have read and heard that many times from others.

I hope things work out for you!

[sweetwoodmaple]

P.S. If you are looking at either MIG or TIG, also look into getting some bars of aluminum to back up the weld areas (can be clamped in place).

It helps as you learn and will both keep in the shield gas (on corners) and act as a heat sync which will help with burn through and overheated metal.

[holey_bucket]

Wegnerwelding, that's an excellent point of view. I have found quite a few different Miller components on Craigslist. A few Lincoln, but more Miller. Can I mix brands? For instance, I found a decent Miller inverter, and if I found the rest Lincoln stuff... Or is the Lincoln inverter a big selling point for you?

Sweetwoodmaple, thanks for your experience also. It's good to hear in advance how much time and money I should expect in practicing. Do you use a small tank?

[sweetwoodmaple]

I have the medium size tank. I have my gas set at 20 to 25 CFH, so I'm sure that is a bit of overkill. I keep it that way as some of the places I had to weld required a gas lense and sticking the electrode out almost 1".

Also, to admit a mistake...my fitting on the regulator wasn't tight on my first tank....

Still...with lots to tacking and the post flow of solenoid, it does seem to go through the gas.

[Big_Eddy]

[QUOTE=holey_bucket;127951]Wegnerwelding, that's an excellent point of view. I have found quite a few different Miller components on Craigslist. A few Lincoln, but more Miller. Can I mix brands? For instance, I found a decent Miller inverter, and if I found the rest Lincoln stuff... Or is the Lincoln inverter a big selling point for you?
QUOTE]

holey_bucket - Lincoln and Miller both make good machines. Either will meet your need. It's a Ford / Chevy thing - each have their loyal customers. I think the Miller inverters are better than the Lincoln's, but I love the Lincoln transformer machines. Other opinions will differ.

I would suggest a complete solution from one vendor. While some parts are interchangeable, without knowing the products you could end up with parts that won't mate. For what you want, you need a TIG powersource (inverter or transformer), an air cooled torch, and preferably a foot pedal. You will need an Argon tank and consumables. Look for the smallest tungstens possible with appropriate sized cups and collets.

Make sure that you understand the input power requirements for any machine you're considering, especially when looking at used stuff. A 3 phase unit is not a bargain if you don't have 3 phase power.

Good Luck

[Bucket Head]

I'm not going to tell anyone that the less expensive, lesser known brands won't work for what your doing. But I will suggest going with the better brand names of machines like a few others have suggested. Yes, they are a little more pricey, but the phrase "you get what you pay for" really applies with welding equipment. The durability and reliability of my Miller and Lincoln electric welders and my Victor oxygen/acetylene outfit has proven to be priceless. Its one thing if your "el-cheapo" string trimmer quits on you. But if your welder quits while your building or repairing something thats important or urgent, and you can't find repair parts for it, thats a good day turned really bad in a hurry.

Most of the "non-welding company built/branded" machines, even the well known Snap-On brand and the like, are mongrels. They are made from pieces and parts from so many unknown suppliers that its a nightmare trying to repair them. Quite often the welding suppliers have no parts listings for the off-brand machines and are left to try and "match" something up, and they are rarely successful with that.

Again, theres a lot of decent, used, brand name equipment out there.

Steve

[colt454]

I run 140 lincoln and miller side by side every day for the money lincoln in the way better deal the miller is about $800 and shuts off all the time to cool off the lincoln is about $400 and never shuts off dont get me wrong they are both great machines for what i weld 20ga-12ga galv if you do alot of welding stay away from hobart ez welders they melt down!!!!!! took 2 of these to figure that out