Dual-pipeline manifold video

[DrTimPerkins]

Hi Folks,

Although it may be just slightly more exciting than watching paint dry to most people, to those maple producers out there we present for your viewing pleasure, a video of sap running through a manifold in a dual-pipeline system. The difference between this and a normal manifold and pipeline....we replaced as much of it as we could with clear pipe and clear tubing so that it could be visualized (that is why the pipeline is so thick...had to be clear and hold up to high vacuum). So if you ever spent hours pondering what is going on in a manifold....now you can find out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGJlr_iquB0

A warning for those who get overly excited about this time of year.....this video contains graphic and unretouched images of sap running. Please make sure you are sitting down and have taken all your medications before watching this video.

[maplecrest]

dr. do you know the type and manufacturer of the clear pipe and what it is vac rated for thank you jeff

[DrTimPerkins]

dr. do you know the type and manufacturer of the clear pipe and what it is vac rated for thank you jeff

Not sure of the manufacturer. It is rated the same as normal Sch 40 pipe. I believe we got the PVC pipe fittings it from McMaster. Pricey stuff though. A 90 deg elbow in regular PVC is about $1.20. In clear they are over $20 each. Same kind of thing with the tubing. For a vacuum rated hose, it had to be 1" ID and 2" OD, and was about $25/ft. It also has no UV stabilizer in it, so will yellow very quickly when exposed to light. This isn't something you want to do just because it might be interesting to watch every now and then -- unless you've got deep pockets -- in which case, we'll sell you hrs of video of this stuff.

[ennismaple]

Smart and a sense of humour - that's hard to find! Thanks for sharing.

[Thad Blaisdell]

How many taps are running into that manifold?

[DrTimPerkins]

How many taps are running into that manifold?

I'd have to check at work -- I'm at home today (MLK Day). I'd say probably no more than 100, probably less than that. Certainly not a real gusher-type day....not that we have many (or any) of those last year.

[Brian Ryther]

DR Tim,
Have you ever tried to add smoke or somthing like that to show the sap / gas seperation in a dual line system?

[Thad Blaisdell]

Now that is one heck of an idea.........

[DrTimPerkins]

Have you ever tried to add smoke or somthing like that to show the sap / gas seperation in a dual line system?

We thought of that, but you don't really need to. At times when you're standing watching it, if you watch very carefully you can see small vapor droplets being sucked up the dry line. You can see the sap much better in person. The lack of contrast with the sap and snow make it hard to see a lot in the videos unfortunately.

Besides that....it is part of our production system. We don't want to introduce anything into the sap that we wouldn't want there to begin with.

We do have one good video after a freeze, where the wet line was frozen and sap was being pulled down the dry line until it melted enough to get the wet line moving. We also have video of pipeline junctions showing a grey PVC fitting next to a SS fitting (much smaller blockage). Real neat.

[sweetwoodmaple]

Thanks for posting these videos.

It's tough for folks like me who have converted gravity to vacuum. It's hard on the pocketbook to rethink the wet/dry and better layout. In a few years, my tubing will be about shot and I can rethink at that point.

On your joke....yes, we do have to be careful not to get too excited. I really don't know where this bug comes from...but it is bad.

In contrast, at the end of some of my more frustrating seasons, I have to resist the tendency to burn the place down!!! ;)

[Brent]

Dual line question

My vac line runs over 3 rises in the terrrain, with 3 seperators at the bottom of a little valley. On the way to each seperator, the vac line runs parallel to a lot of my main lines as they run down each slope.

How much benefit would I get by just tapping into each mainline near at the top of each slope. Flow down the mainlines is good because the slopes are good, but if I did this, some of the vacuum would be running up against the sap flow.

It seems like a bit of a waste to run the vac line to seperator only to split it and run it back up the hill beside the vac line going down.

There are about 200 taps going into each seperator and I will have about 25" this year.

[DrTimPerkins]

On your joke....yes, we do have to be careful not to get too excited. I really don't know where this bug comes from...but it is bad.

In contrast, at the end of some of my more frustrating seasons, I have to resist the tendency to burn the place down!!!

Not meaning to offend anyone, but being a maple producer is probably (close to) some type of mental disorder. You spend all year waiting anxiously for the sap to start running. As it gets close you're spending all your time obsessing about it and running around in a frenzied state and until you get to almost to the babbling point. As soon as it does start, something happens (leaks, frozen pipes, RO won't work) and you want it to stop. When it finally does stop running for a bit, 2 hrs later you're ready for it to start up again. You go through the whole season like this until finally at the end you're just too totally exhausted to care whether it runs or doesn't. By the time the season finally does end, you've about had it (ready to burn the place down) -- however your wife reached that point with you at least 2 wks before. A few days later, you're wondering how next year will be. About the only relief you'll get for 10 months is to talk about it on MapleTrader.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I would like to edit only one thing out of Dr Tim's post. He wrote "A few days later, you're wondering how next year will be".

I would change that to A few days later, you,re wondering how can I make more next year.

[twofer]

Not meaning to offend anyone, but being a maple producer is probably (close to) some type of mental disorder. You spend all year waiting anxiously for the sap to start running. As it gets close you're spending all your time obsessing about it and running around in a frenzied state and until you get to almost to the babbling point. As soon as it does start, something happens (leaks, frozen pipes, RO won't work) and you want it to stop. When it finally does stop running for a bit, 2 hrs later you're ready for it to start up again. You go through the whole season like this until finally at the end you're just too totally exhausted to care whether it runs or doesn't. By the time the season finally does end, you've about had it (ready to burn the place down) -- however your wife reached that point with you at least 2 wks before. A few days later, you're wondering how next year will be. About the only relief you'll get for 10 months is to talk about it on MapleTrader.

And there it is folks, you all are crazy.

*points fingers*

:lol:

[ennismaple]

Guilty as charged. By late April I'm exhausted and sick of everything maple. A week or two of normal working days and good sleep and I'm wondering how I can make more syrup next year!

[3rdgen.maple]

Man you just got a good laugh out of me. You just described me perfectly and Im sure alot of others as well. Thats funny stuff. Doc can you give me the OKay to frame that quote so I can hang it in the sugarhouse?

[farmall h]

I watched the entire video! Now I have a better understanding of the DRY line. Got me quite excited...well I better leave it at that.....:)

[kiegscustoms]

Very well put Doc!

[sugarmountain]

That video is awesome! thank god the cam moved a little:) It would be cool to see a line that has too many taps on it.

[DrTimPerkins]

A couple new videos posted. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxfQ23nP48Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoZkV6V3o9U

[mapleack]

Not meaning to offend anyone, but being a maple producer is probably (close to) some type of mental disorder. You spend all year waiting anxiously for the sap to start running. As it gets close you're spending all your time obsessing about it and running around in a frenzied state and until you get to almost to the babbling point. As soon as it does start, something happens (leaks, frozen pipes, RO won't work) and you want it to stop. When it finally does stop running for a bit, 2 hrs later you're ready for it to start up again. You go through the whole season like this until finally at the end you're just too totally exhausted to care whether it runs or doesn't. By the time the season finally does end, you've about had it (ready to burn the place down) -- however your wife reached that point with you at least 2 wks before. A few days later, you're wondering how next year will be. About the only relief you'll get for 10 months is to talk about it on MapleTrader.

So completely true!

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

It looks like quite a bit of sap for less then 100 taps. I wonder how the branch line was set up? Maybe there is something new and exciting that we don't see on the video.

[DrTimPerkins]

It looks like quite a bit of sap for less then 100 taps. I wonder how the branch line was set up? Maybe there is something new and exciting that we don't see on the video.

Not really. Plain dual-pipeline setup. This section just happens to be one installed by CDL (we obviously swapped out their manifold and section of pipe with clear). It is a nice installation though....they did a very good job.

[maplecrest]

dr. thank you for answering my question. the clear "milk hose" was what i was interested in. thank you jeff

[DrTimPerkins]

dr. thank you for answering my question. the clear "milk hose" was what i was interested in. thank you jeff

If you try it, make sure the hose you get is vacuum rated. Otherwise you'll collapse the pipe....which would make pulling sap through it rather problematic.

[maplecrest]

in the video what is the clear pipe from the mains to the vac booster? it does not look like sc 40 type pipe but a flex poly. milk hose does crush under high vac.

[twofer]

This has got me to thinking that it might be a good idea in the future to cut out a small section of mainline, put in cam locks, and replace the clear tubing every year. It would give visitors something more fun to look at than the translucent blue tubing.

[DrTimPerkins]

in the video what is the clear pipe from the mains to the vac booster? it does not look like sc 40 type pipe but a flex poly. milk hose does crush under high vac.

It is not Schedule 40, and is not the standard "milk hose" that people use. It is called "laboratory clear tygon pvc tubing, vacuum rated (to 29.9" Hg), 1" ID, 2" OD, 1/2" wall thickness, formulation R-3603". It costs $37.26 per foot. Not stuff you want to just put up anywhere for the fun of it.

It has no UV stabilizer, so will yellow fairly quickly upon exposure to sunlight. We covered it with black plastic for the off-season (summer-winter).

[Haynes Forest Products]

Is it possible get someone to put it to music? Maybe the opening score from Star Wars. We could put it on a CD and instead of the crackling fire or fish tank we could play it to get the wife in the mood:o.........................For sugaring that is:D

[michiganfarmer2]

Not meaning to offend anyone, but being a maple producer is probably (close to) some type of mental disorder. You spend all year waiting anxiously for the sap to start running. As it gets close you're spending all your time obsessing about it and running around in a frenzied state and until you get to almost to the babbling point. As soon as it does start, something happens (leaks, frozen pipes, RO won't work) and you want it to stop. When it finally does stop running for a bit, 2 hrs later you're ready for it to start up again. You go through the whole season like this until finally at the end you're just too totally exhausted to care whether it runs or doesn't. By the time the season finally does end, you've about had it (ready to burn the place down) -- however your wife reached that point with you at least 2 wks before. A few days later, you're wondering how next year will be. About the only relief you'll get for 10 months is to talk about it on MapleTrader.

I posted this on my facebook. too funny, and very true

[DrTimPerkins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBq4N0q3zDs

Bottom line from a manifold joining the dry line of a dual-pipe system. Note the added turbulance below the tee junction caused by the joining of the two sap streams.

[DrTimPerkins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx_2JPJy46Y

Wet line is frozen. Air bubbles are being sucked out of wet line up through manifold and out through dry line (along with sap). Happens after hard freeze if you have a dip in the wet line where ice forms to plug the system. Dry line then acts as a single pipe system for a period of time until the wet line thaws out.

[DrTimPerkins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GMNrPNEyso Sap flow through a PVC junction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIjd7pClcAA Sap flow through a SS junction.

The two junctions are placed about 6' apart in the same line, so the same amount of sap flows through them within a given time period. Notice the reduced turbulance after this SS fitting compared to the PVC junction.

[bigtreemaple]

Dr. Tim, I do not understand the reason for putting a shut off valve on the dry line before the manifold, I notice there is not a corresponding valve on the wet line, I am sure there is a reason for this, could you explain?

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim, I do not understand the reason for putting a shut off valve on the dry line before the manifold, I notice there is not a corresponding valve on the wet line, I am sure there is a reason for this, could you explain?

It is standard and is used when washing with pressurized air/water from the bottom of the system. If you didn't have that valve, you would simply blow water up to the manifold and it would come back down through your dry line. You shut the upper valve off and the water is pushed out through the single mainline.

[bigtreemaple]

I understand now, thank you for the explanation.

[Brian Ryther]

DR Tim,
Could you post the video clip you use in you presentation that shows the sap movment in a dual drop line system? Thanks