Starting a flue pan build.

[Paperman]

Might not be ready for this year but at least I started it. I built the brake last night. Followed a few sets of pictures from the Trader as well as just a few thoughts of my own. Pan will be 28X38. I sheared the 4X10' 22ga sheet at work and am planning to start braking the sheet this weekend. 7 drop flues 1X5 on a 1" spacing. 9" sides are the plan for now. Pics to follow as I need to take them tonight.

For those that have welded your own have you tried the paste flux for the backside of the weld to keep from sugaring? Our welders use it on Sch. 10 pipe with good success. Sure would save a lot of back gassing.

[Sugarmaker]

Paperman,
Hope to see some early pictures of the pan. Sounds like a good project for you. I would aggree that unless you can go 24/7 on this thing better take your time and have it ready for 2012.
Regards,
Chris

[Paperman]

I hope to bend up a few trial flues tonight and snap some pictures. I wont have them until Monday as I live in a dial-up only area. I need to be at work in order to have a picture upload between the birth of my children.

[Mark]

I use Solar Flux in the hard to reach places. In the corners I use a copper heat sink on the inside with a corner filed off for the argon. Drill a hole to get through the heat sink to the filed corner for the gas hookup. On the outside on both sides I also put copper strips and clamp. If there are no gaps you can just run down the seam and fuse it together and it is easy. It gets a little tricky when you have a gap and have to use filler.

[Paperman]

OK here we go. These are a few shots of the end of my Brake. Main bed is heavy channel and the folding arm is 2x1.5x1/4 angle. I welded 3 gussets in the help from folding back the taller leg. I should have trussed the folder but did not have stock on hand to build it right so I left it as is.

[Paperman]

Next up. I sheared the sheet (304 22ga stainless 4'X10') down to the finish width,which is the length of the pan 32", but left if full length of 10'. That will give me a couple of inches extra but I was not sure how well the brake would work and if i would need any extra at the end. I realy could have used a truss but did not have the material on hand to build one. But in the end it did make a serviceable corner.

[Paperman]

When you build a brake you need to be able to feed the flues in from the back. I had to trim the channel of of the bed to be able to slide a flue over the bed.

[Paperman]

After a few hours you get what starts to look like a pan. Bend, bend, flip, bend, bend,flip........

A few practice welds before the big job latter this week. Not to bad for a 2 days work all in all.

[Big_Eddy]

You guys are making me jealous. All those nice crisp bends! My brake flexed a bit too much in the middle so my bends were more rounded. It's been improved now, but not until after the flues were bent.

Looking good!

For welding it up, suggest a piece of Aluminium that just fits tight in the flue. Put some tape on the back side to give a bit of a seal when you clamp the sides against it - then you can purge the small gap between it and the end panel. I used solar flux but it is not as effective as a back purge and it leaves a residue that is tricky to get off.

My biggest problem was the border between the flue ends and the pan end. Lot of little gaps and things off just a bit. What worked for me was to tack it a few places where it touched, then use a ball pein to adjust the rest of the joint until it was touching all along. That way you weren't trying to fill as many holes.

Keep the pictures coming.

[Paperman]

On a 28" wide pan does how should the dividers layout? 1/2,1/3, none? Pan is 28X32. Been batch cooking on a flat pan for years so the draw some off as you go is new to us.

[michiganfarmer2]

OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!

Ive been thinking about doing the same thing to replace my soldered flue pan. I want to build a welded stainless flue pan. I priced a new welded stainless flue pan, and leader wants $9000. I can get the stainless for $1300. I can do the welding, but getting 7 foot stainless broke for my 3 x 12 will be the challange

[michiganfarmer2]

Might not be ready for this year but at least I started it. I built the brake last night. Followed a few sets of pictures from the Trader as well as just a few thoughts of my own. Pan will be 28X38. I sheared the 4X10' 22ga sheet at work and am planning to start braking the sheet this weekend. 7 drop flues 1X5 on a 1" spacing. 9" sides are the plan for now. Pics to follow as I need to take them tonight.

For those that have welded your own have you tried the paste flux for the backside of the weld to keep from sugaring? Our welders use it on Sch. 10 pipe with good success. Sure would save a lot of back gassing.

IM confused about the flux usage. Any tig weldiing Ive ever seen uses argon or some other gas to protect the weld puddle. What is the point of the flux?

[michiganfarmer2]

Paperman, where are you? Could I come look at yuor break so maybe I could build my own for breaking 7 foot stuff?

[Paperman]

IM confused about the flux usage. Any tig weldiing Ive ever seen uses argon or some other gas to protect the weld puddle. What is the point of the flux?

I think I know what you are thinking. Yes tig does use a shielding gas to protect the weld puddle. On stainless you have a condition on the backside, carbide precipitation, or "sugaring" as it is called. Makes the backside of the puddle look real crusty. The preffered way to keep this away is to back gas with the same shielding gas as you use in the torch. Sometimes this is not real easy as the tubing and space can be difficult to work with. The other option is a shielding flux applied to the backside of the weld. It works like the hard flux on a stick in SMAW. It keeps all the oxygen away from the weld long enough for it to cool. Here's a link http://www.solarflux.com/Pages/Whyuse.html .

You can check out my brake if you wish but at 7' you may need a different idea. Im in the Ludington area. Maybe some type of press break or a 2 piece flue with a weld down the center of each one. Lots of ways to skin a cat but its all the same to the cat.

[Sugarmaker]

paperman,
Thanks for posting! Your going to like the Flue pan.
I like your shop full of toys too! Snowmobile, Airplane, Old Buick, Nice.
Yea makes my work brake and bends look like junk! But I only have to please myself.
Chris

[Sugarmaker]

Micigan,
I built a 5 foot Plus brake for my WRU build ( See other post on that subject) so you just have to go two more feet:) But may need to be much beefier to get good bends.
Chris

[Paperman]

Close on the car, 61' Olds Super 88. You missed the hanging deer on the hanger door. Roadkill is great this time of year. :o

[Sugarmaker]

paperman,
Dang I am slipping on the deer thing! And I am a Ford guy so you got me off track on the car. Nice shop! I would love to build a big man cave!
Chris


Close on the car, 61' Olds Super 88. You missed the hanging deer on the hanger door. Roadkill is great this time of year. :o

[allgreenmaple]

Very impressive flue bends. Some of the nicest I have seen, look forward to seeing the end product.

[Paperman]

More pics to come. One side has all the fingers welded and the other side is cut and fit. Hope to weld it out tonight. Then on the sides.

[Paperman]

Sorry for the delay but work stepped in the way of progress. One end is done and the other has 4 of 7 flues closed up. Hope to finish by this weekend. Had a few spots that didnt want to close as I was making my pass but just went back and closed it up with some filler. Every spot I had a tack it kinda messed the bead up but oh well its not a show piece.

[twitch]

I work at a metal fab shop. Your pan looks nice i need to replace one that is on an old leader wood fired evaporator i would like to know what you used for dies to do your bending?Ii would like to do it my self I have the old pan that is english tin and im guessing lead solder.

[Ausable]

Sorry for the delay but work stepped in the way of progress. One end is done and the other has 4 of 7 flues closed up. Hope to finish by this weekend. Had a few spots that didnt want to close as I was maiking my pass but just went back and closed it up with some filler. Every spot I had a tack it kinda messed the bead up but oh well its not a show piece.

Hey -- Paperman -- Very nice job -- I was wondering how You were going to handle the ends of the bends on Your new flue pan and thanks to your pictures -- I have once again been educated. One of my Sons is a machinist and one of his sons is a welder and they are always amazed at how little I know about metal working -- Cause I'm always asking questions I guess. Hey - again - Nice work ----- Mike

[Paperman]

I just grabbed some info from here and some other people and went at it. I figured worst I could do is is waste $150 sheet of SS and some iron on the brake. I love the net for the ability to see and read what others have done. Its the little things than can help ALOT. On that note, one thing I would do different is peel off the white protective film on the sheet before bending. You can see it in alot of my pics and it is a pain to peel off between the flues. Any scratch in it is a place it will tear so you have to pick at it to get it all off. :emb:

Sorry Twitch forgot to answer your question. No dies used just the brake pictured at the top of this post.

[Paperman]

Ok Im most of the way through the build. I ran out of argon with about 6" left of welding on the main pan. Still have a few fittings to weld in. Came out good in the end. I did use some solar flux to sheild as my gas was comming to an end. that is the dark corners in the pics. I need to clean it up still. I think a test boil is in order.

[Sugarmaker]

Paperman,
Very nice work! Should boil like crazy! Your making it look easy!
Regards,
Chris

[cpmaple]

Very nice work wish i could do that but dont understand how to make the break for it welding part i got. Great job and hope you have a great season!!!!!!! cpmaple

[Paperman]

The brake was pretty straight forward. The hinge is the tricky part. The main bed is simply a piece of heavy channel say 4X40. You dont want the channel wider than your flue will be deep or you may have issues. The folding arm is heavy angle with a few gussets. The heavier the better I would think. Also a truss on the down facing leg would make a much better bend. My clamp was a 3/4"X2" piece of cold rolled bar. Two all thread (mine were B7 high strength studs) studs for the hold downs. For the hinge I used a few pieces of angle to give me room to fold it up all the way. I can post more pics if needed. Made the whole brake in about 3 hrs. with only Big_Eddys pics as a starting point.

[SapZilla]

could someone post a link to Big Eddies Pics please?

[Paperman]

could someone post a link to Big Eddies Pics please?

Went to search and put in his name.

http://www.mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=6606

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

Very nice work paperman. Just wondering why you did not put flues the full width of the pan?

[Paperman]

Short answer is material. Sheet came in 4X10, the way it layed out I had 6" left of that 10' the rest is all folded up. I could have kept going with flues if this was a max effort type of deal but it was more of a can I do it and see how well it goes. Now that I have done it I may sell off this pan next year and make a longer, more flue pan. The way this one was built was to fit an arch we currently have so if I failed miserably we could still cook this year on our old standby flat pan.

[3rdgen.maple]

Paperman first off great job on the build. I was wondering if you had any intentions of putting a divider right down the middle of that pan? It will help out your gradient enormously and raw sap entering the pan would be limited to one corner so it doesnt dilute the whole pan and also kill the boil in the whole pan as well. Just a thought for you to ponder over.

[Paperman]

Thank you for the complimnets. I kinda asked that question in post 10 of this thread. Having never cooked in a flue or divided pan(been batching for a few years) I don't know what to do as far as dividers. I was hoping to get an idea for this weekend so I could work on making them. I was thinking of cutting the pan into 3 sections. Both sides would have 1 flue and the flat with the middle having 5 flues. 10 inches in the middle and 9" on each side. :emb:

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

Putting dividers in will help get a gradient in the pan. The fresh sap will push the denser sap through. This will help with more consistent draws.

Are you running this into a divided syrup pan, or is this it?

[Paperman]

This year this is it. Next year the new food prep building will be finished and a new arch built along with an accompanying flat pan for finishing.

The building is for our honey,maple,sausage and smoking operation. Right now they are all in different areas but we are consolidating them into one purpose built building.

[3rdgen.maple]

Thank you for the complimnets. I kinda asked that question in post 10 of this thread. Having never cooked in a flue or divided pan(been batching for a few years) I don't know what to do as far as dividers. I was hoping to get an idea for this weekend so I could work on making them. I was thinking of cutting the pan into 3 sections. Both sides would have 1 flue and the flat with the middle having 5 flues. 10 inches in the middle and 9" on each side. :emb:

One divider right down the center of your flue pan is all you need in it. The syrup pan is the one you would have a couple dividers in it. Just cut an angle out of the divider in the back. just make a mark a 2 to 3 inches on the bottom and the same on the top and cut that out. Weld it in and you are good. Every flue pan I have seen in the small to mid size range only has one divider in the flue pan.

[Paperman]

My only issues is with the odd number of flues the center is in a drop. I know Im not the only one but when things are off an inch they just dont look right. I know it has nothing to do with function but when something you work hard on just doesnt look right after your done it is kind of a buzz kill. I put a small dent in one of the flue bends as I was flipping it. No big deal but it bothered the hell out of me. Spent an hour knocking it back out with body hammers and dollies. If it gets damage after your finished its character but if its dinged before you call it finished then I just need to make it right. Ill have to do some mock up tonight to see what will work.

[xulgiy]

I know I'll get bashed on this but I have found that a divider tacked in will work just as well as a solid weld. That being said....try to bend an offset so that the divider looks even when full of sap. Then bend a 90 degree, 3/8" or so wide, along the whole bottom and sides. Notch the back corner for your flow through... Air punch 1/4" holes and tack it tight to the bottom. Trust me, it will work great. The plus.....if it doesn't, grind the welds off and you are back to square one...:)

[flyfishbob]

after applying flux to the back side... can you weld over the back side after your done welding the front? or do you need to clean the metal before welding the back side? Does anyone know? Thanks Bob

[Paperman]

Going to start the float box tonight. What size should it be? I was thinking 4" wide and about 6" long. Float would then be around 3X4 with the 2 inchs of length left over in the box for the valve and a place for the sap to flow into?
Or should the sap flow into the pan and not the float box?

[afretired]

Paperman
Be carefull and not get it to small to float. The first one I built looked great but it wasn't big enough to float. My final one is 4" X 10" and the box is about 5" X 12".


David

[Haynes Forest Products]

Yes do your math. Remember that you need to float all the levers brackets and still have enough boyancy to shut the valve and keep it shut. OH YEA and a vent tube for expanding air in the float.......NO you dont put a guage on it:)

[Paperman]

Figured I should update this a bit. The pan is now sitting on my homebuilt arch awaiting a flow. Built up a quick steam hood. Made it from 1" alum. channel and shiny alum jacketing from insulating steam pipe. Whole hood weights about 3#. 10" vent pipe. Float box is on the side. Hope to try it out this week. **** frozen ground, built the lean-to about a month ago and the ground was not to bad. After I shoveled out all the snow the cold got right to the dirt, hard as stone.