power requirements for vacuum and RO

[sapaddict]

I wondering if anyone knows the general power requirements for a vacuum sufficient for 2000 taps, and also seperately a small RO for similar number or more taps. :?:

[syrupmaker]

Sapaddict......there are alot of variables in sizeing requirements. Seperate service to the building,or comeing off of an exsisting service such as a house? For starters i would figure a minimum of a 150 amp service, as you grow so will your power requirements. A little extra now can save alot of $$$ and aggravation down the road.

Rick

[mountainvan]

I just got a cdl 250 ro this year. Ran 40 amp to a small insulated heated "RO shed "from my 100 amp breaker box in my house. It works fine and my electric bill was only $50 more this year. CDL says my ro takes 26 amps. You should figure out your total electrical load of your house before adding any circuits. My 250 actually averaged 300/hr. Good luck!

[brookledge]

If you have the option of three phase that will save you money on electricity. If not plan on definately needing 220 anyways. As far as size of vacuum pump you need to have 1 CFM per 100 taps @20"Hg. So for 2,000 taps plan on a 20CFM @20"Hg. Probably that size vacuum pump will need about 3 HP motor or a little bigger.
Keith

[sapaddict]

ok, so one other variable. I dont really have conventional "service". Power would be generated throught photovoltaics or micro turbine. Other than making as much power as possible, what are minimal needs and any other things I should know.

[brookledge]

You may want to look into a generator. When you ask how much electricity is needed for an R.O. and a vacuum pump I'm not sure if you are looking at the needs for a complete sugarhouse or just the r.o. and a vacuum pump. Other than needing to power the electric motor in the R.O. you need to have a reliable heating source so that it does not freeze in the building it is in and pumps to move the sap from tank to tank. You need to have the capacity to store some water from the r.o. to back flush. I guess what I'm saying is that there is more to it than just the size of the motor on the R.O.
If you have some kind of a turbine generator you would need to have about 220 volt and 60 amps minimum and better with 100 amps. And as I said before for a vacuum pump figure around a 3HP motor or 240 volts and 25amps. (6000 watts) and for the R.O.,pumps,lights and heat about 10,000 to 12,000 watts.
When someone makes syrup on a small scale you can get away with no electricity at all if you want to but when you look at 2,000 taps with a good vacuum system then you are going to get 800 to 1,000 gallons of syrup you are going to need a filter press, canning units, etc.
If you can't get a power supply then without a vacuum system you would average 400 to 500 gals. on 2,000 taps.
Hope this helps.
Keith

[forester1]

I looked into photovoltaics and hydro a little since I have no power but it looks like it wouldn't be feasible for me except maybe a few lights. Also what to do about storage batteries when the sugarhouse is not running. Batteries should not be subject to extended freezing. One more thing to think about is pumps take a lot more power to start than run. Often the stated amperage on a pump is for running it but it would actually take a lot more amps to start it up.

[sweetwoodmaple]

Yes, see the gas generator forums for pump inrush. Depending on the letter code is can be around 5x the full load amps.

The best thing to do is to use a decent qualtiy amp clip and capture peak current.

Brian

[forester1]

Another thing that can be done if you don't have any power is buy a bigger evaporator and run gas engines on vacuum pumps. An RO is out of the question for me so that is what I decided to do. My understanding is a gas engine would have to be twice the rated horsepower as an electric motor on a vacuum pump for the same amount of taps.

[Mike]

I have a 5.5 honda on my vac pump. It's suppose to be good for 1200 taps.. I can get about 4.5 hrs of run time on a gal of gas.......I hope to find a used 6-10 gal gas tank for the nights the sap run all night......I may get a RO next year but will have to up grade to a bigger gen......Im thinking 6500 watt honda or yamaha diesel.....

[brookledge]

Mike that 6500w gen. might not be big enough for a R.O. 6500w.@240V=27Amps. you'll need to find out how many amps the r.o. draws to size accordonally. And if it needs more amps for start up figure that in also.
Keith