Ash trees....

[Tapmealot]

Why do alot of people like to leave ash trees up in a sugarbush? usually every bush i walk into that have logged or thinned they would leave only ash and oak other then a maple. i can see why an oak but what about ash trees are good?

rob

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

makes good lumber and firewood. EMRALD ash BORER went thru michigan and there isnt many ash alive here

[maple flats]

Likely just because ash is usually a straight stemed tree, an ash wood wet or ash wood dry a prince shall warm his slippers by (ash will burn even fresh cut).
But beware, Emerald ash borer is marching across the country. When it hitsa ALL ash are at risk of dying, and it only takes a few years to die, as little as 2 or 3 in some cases. EAB has been found in every state in the maple belt from Michigan eastward thru illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Penn, and into far western NY from. It is forcast to kill near 100% of the ash trees thru the entire northeast.
If you have ash, let new seedlings start, but start harvesting the mature ones because the march from Michigan to NY only took about 10 years. EAB first signs are a declining canopy but new growth down low. The insect exits the tree thru a D shaped exit hole under a 1/4" wide. The biggest threat to fast migration is campers hauling firewood with EAB in it.

[maple connection]

We have alot of 12" to 14" black ash and alot of them look like they are dying. We think they have some kind of root disease. The tree's are tipping over and the roots are all rooten.

[waysidemaple]

The Emerald ash borer is here in my area...ash trees are dying left arnd right. We dont have very many ash trees still alive so the ones that are still going strong we leave alone. A few people have mentioned a bug that was imported when gov't started the crep program. They ordered all the trees over seas and they had the bug. Correct me if Im wrong.

[dnap63]

You may be right but I thought the Emerald ash borer as well as the Asian Longhorned Beetle were introduced through overseas shipping. Similar to the how we got the zebra mussels in the great lakes and St. Lawrence river.

[waysidemaple]

That sounds right. Either way it's a shame.

[Goggleeye]

I know around here, the white ash brings high $. Just had our (mom's) place logged, and the highest $ on veneer was on white ash - over $2 per ft, where as the white oak was around $1 per ft.
We still have a lot of med-large white ash, hopefully they'll get some growth yet before the EAB hits us here in MO.

[Bucket Head]

Yes it is a shame. Its hard to believe that they'll be gone in just a short time.

I look at it like this. Thousands and thousands of jobs have been lost to "overseas" in recent years. Now, indirectly, "overseas" will be responsible for the loss of our prized trees too.

Hard to believe and even harder to swallow.

Steve

[peckfarm]

I just logged the sugar bush and the ash that was there will pay for a lot of the new tubing. I keep some ash, cherry and yellow birch in the bush just to keep it diverse and to have some future income.

[mike z]

A lot of our ash trees have been dying. I think mostly because of the severe dry weather we've had lately. Almost all the hickory trees in our woods are dying or dead too. It is very rare to find a living one. First the elm went, then the butternut, now the hickory and ash. Although, I do think the last two are from the dry weather. No EAB here yet (that I know of).

[markcasper]

everyone keep going to walmart!!!!!!!!

[3fires]

There are zero ash left downstate here in MI, except for a few saplings which are dying off as well. When I was up in the northern lower morel hunting last season I saw a few EABs and the woods were being cut of all ash because the loggers knew it wouldn't be long. :(

[dnap63]

Here in NYS we have a quarantine on transporting wood in several counties where the EAB has been found. It is just a matter of time before they are everywhere. I just hope we can somehow contain the asian longhorn beetle before it gets as widespread.

[argohauler]

Southern Ontario has EAB as well. It came from Michigan. They tried cutting all ash trees in a 10km strip from Lake Erie to Lake Huron, but they got across, likely from transporting firewood. The likely culprit is a nearby sawmill, bringing in the logs and selling the slab firewood.

My county is the only one along Lake Erie that hasn't been diagnosed with it yet, but we are surrounded on 3 sides, so it will be here eventually.

Another thing that is killing ash in our bush is Ash Yellows, a form of anthracnose.

Before logging prices went for a crap around here, the guy's bush I tore my lines out of, would log 20K of ash out a year. Now ash and everything but veneer walnut is near worthless.

I find maple is a shorter tree and ash and oak will tower over them, so I get rid of the ash near the maples.

[BryanEx]

Southern Ontario has EAB as well.
It showed up in Ottawa two years ago as well.

[vikingHB]

Here in SW Ontario (along Lake Huron), we also have the EAB. I live in Huron county, and we cannot sell firewood outside the county. Most ash trees in my bush are coming down in the next few months, before they are beyond any use.
We do not have ash yellow, but we do have a fungus disease called verticillium. The fungus clogs the vascular system quickly, and kills the tree.
Between the EAB, and the Verticillium, the ash trees in my bush will have dissappeared in 2 years. I collect the seed keys, and I will try to reforest my bush with a few trees once I know the pests are gone.

[cpmaple]

I live in eastern ny and most all the ash on my property is dead or going the other way. Been harvesting them for fire wood in the house. Sad to see them go but, opens up the maple more and more each year. Not sure of the reason why but the tops lose more limbs each year so i take out the dead and live what look good for the following year. cpmaple

[TRAILGUY]

I have an 80 acre tree farm in NH, and beach and ash are both dieing and being removed for fire wood. I see a white growth on the bottom of the ash. Probably 50% sow far.

[wally]

several reasons to leave ash in the 'bush.

ash leaf litter is nutrient rich, which helps maintain the soil.

there may be some natural resistance to eab, but if all the ash are removed prior to actual attack, we won't know. this would be similar to the overreaction to chestnut blight, where healthy trees were harvested instead of waiting for infection. in both cases, it appears the "agent" targets only the ash (for eab) or chestnut (for chestnut blight), so removing healthy stems prior to infection really serves no long-term benefit. the difference with alb, and removing susceptible trees in a known infected area, is that alb is not host-specific.

avoiding monoculture is a good thing, in general. even if there are only a few ash, beech, oak, hemlock, etc in the 'bush, it allows some variability.

[randomseeker]

I am interested in the thought that ash will burn wet or dry. I am clearing some fallen ash right now out of my sugar bush and would love to burn them in the evaporator. Plus I have to make an ash cutting as part of my EAB planning. So wood I cut now will have a couple of months winter drying before it gets used. I don't have a huge quantity of other seasoned hardwood so would love to know that this will be effective.

If I can burn it in the evaporator, can I also burn it in the house?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

You can burn green ash but it is still green wood. It may burn better than some other green stuff but it will not perform like seasoned wood. If you must use it, get it split small immediately to facilitate as much drying as possible in the next few weeks.

[bobsklarz]

I've read that some Universities are studying species of wasps that are natural enemies of EAB. They're bringing them in from the beatles original habitat. Ohio is going to start the study this Spring/Summer. Hopefully, they find the help the trees need. A good reason to keep those ash seedlings in the woods.:)

[MFarmall]

Have noticed quite a few dead ash back in the woods this winter. Most have dead limbs up high breaking off and some bark falling off. Cut one this summer that looked dead, when it hit the ground it went to pieces. Looked like it had been dead for a long time, with all the "D" shaped holes in it. Have heard that it takes 4-5 years for the EAB to kill a tree, I think they have been around longer than the state is saying. Am going to try and leave what looks like healthy ash but will be cutting a lot of the bad ones this spring, before they come down on their own at the wrong time.
I try to leave some walnut, oak and hickory scattered around, have heard that better to have some diversity in the woods in case of disease or bugs come through.
Mel

[mogihillfarm]

I don't like the idea of bringing in wasps to combat the EAB. Bring in another invader? Have we learned anything from Zebra mussels or Africanized bees? It just does not sound like a good idea.

[TF Maple]

I don't like the idea of bringing in wasps to combat the EAB. Bring in another invader? Have we learned anything from Zebra mussels or Africanized bees? It just does not sound like a good idea.

Many insects have natural enemies that only prey on one insect and leave most other insects alone. So if this wasp only hunts EAB then it should be safe. Africanized bees is a good example of intruducing an insect on purpose that turned out to be a problem. Zebra Mussels were acidentally brought in with bilge water on ships so it is not an example of introducing a species on purpose.

[Dill]

Ash is stump to stove. We always try to leave a few good ash trees standing in easy to get location for winter emergency trees, you know too much snow to get into the "real" woods and not enough wood in the shed for the rest of winter. Yes dried ash is slightly better than fresh cut, but its a heck of a lot better than nothing.
To quote my neighbor;
"You can't beat a nice piece of ash"

[Cardigan99]

Splits like a dream

[Ausable]

I am interested in the thought that ash will burn wet or dry. I am clearing some fallen ash right now out of my sugar bush and would love to burn them in the evaporator. Plus I have to make an ash cutting as part of my EAB planning. So wood I cut now will have a couple of months winter drying before it gets used. I don't have a huge quantity of other seasoned hardwood so would love to know that this will be effective.

If I can burn it in the evaporator, can I also burn it in the house?

If the Ash You are cleaning up were killed by EAB and finally snapped off and fell it will burn just fine. If by wet - You mean from snow or rain - it wouldn't hurt to stack and cover it - after you cut it up - for at least a couple of weeks to dry some. On the other hand if it was live, trees knocked down by wind - I would split, stack and cover for a year -- You can usually burn about anything once you get a good fire going - but - to get the most out of it - the dryer the better. Hey - Ash is great for using to heat the house, I bank the wood stove at night and You can't beat ash for getting it going again in the morning.

[70 Buick]

can anyone recommend a good book on North American trees
we are new at all this & would love a good book on this subject to keep at the cottage, and know what we are dealing with

[Ausable]

can anyone recommend a good book on North American trees
we are new at all this & would love a good book on this subject to keep at the cottage, and know what we are dealing with

Hi there 70 Buick - Warm enough for ya? My favorite book on North American trees is --National Audubon Society - Field Guide to North American Trees - I've had my copy for years and it is packed with need to know information and some very good pictures. --- Mike

[70 Buick]

Thanks , Mike I appreciate it

yeah -35 today that is plenty cold LMAO

[maple flats]

Have noticed quite a few dead ash back in the woods this winter. Most have dead limbs up high breaking off and some bark falling off. Cut one this summer that looked dead, when it hit the ground it went to pieces. Looked like it had been dead for a long time, with all the "D" shaped holes in it. Have heard that it takes 4-5 years for the EAB to kill a tree, I think they have been around longer than the state is saying. Am going to try and leave what looks like healthy ash but will be cutting a lot of the bad ones this spring, before they come down on their own at the wrong time.
I try to leave some walnut, oak and hickory scattered around, have heard that better to have some diversity in the woods in case of disease or bugs come through.
Mel
Those D shape holes are the EAB exiting after gorging themselves forming a gallery of channels in the cambium of the tree. This gallery make it impossible for the tree to get sap above that height. That is what kills the tree.
Someone said NYS bans transporting firewood out of an infected area. More precisely no one in NYS can move firewood more than 50 miles from where it was harvested, unless it has been heated in a furnace to kill any insects. There is a specific temperature and duration and must be labeled as such. Huge fines if anyone labels as such without actually performing the heating. Everyone is encouraged to leave seedling and sapling ash to re populate the ash in time.

[wally]

can anyone recommend a good book on North American trees
we are new at all this & would love a good book on this subject to keep at the cottage, and know what we are dealing with

the sibley guide to trees is decent.

[dgp219]

Check out "Trees Of The Eastern And Central United States and Canada" by William M. Harlow. If your a real plant nerd there is "Winter Keys To Woody Plants of Maine" by Christopher Campbell, which will help you identify almost every tree and shrub by their buds. It is available through the University of Maine Press.

[lastwoodsman]

Manual of Woody Landscape Plants
Their identification ornamental Characteristics, Culture, Propagation and Uses.

By Michael A. Dirr



Woodsman

[Michael Greer]

Ash makes fine firewood, great sugar wood, and if you have good trees of size, a very beautiful sawlog for the cabinet shop. Keep an eye on those trees though, as they won't last long after they begin to die. They say it will soon be extinct.

[wally]

Ash makes fine firewood, ..... They say it will soon be extinct.

who's they? i have yet to read any publication that claims that ash will become extinct because of eab. it may suffer a steep decline in numbers, but that's different from extinction.

[Squaredeal]

Interesting that there's all this talk of declining species and no one mentions the susceptibility of maple. Here in VT we have lost Elm, Chestnut, Butternut with Beech definitely and Ash maybe on the way out. There are some studies about the detrimental effects of atmospheric pollution on Maples, and I am sure that we are seeing it here in our 2000' elevation bush. The canary in the coal mine is gasping.
BTW The Complete Guide to North American Trees by Thomas S. Elias was my Dendrology text in College and it is excellent.

[Kev]

I am amused by how many people think it is oak after it has used in funiture or tables ect. (no little dashs in the grain) yet they think it is oak :D

[argohauler]

I agree acid rain is killing the maples. We get pollution from across Lake Erie and our own coal plant a half hour away.

I walked a maple bush last winter. There was a high concentration of healthy beautiful young maples growing in a crick bottom right in the limestone rock. You went up the crick bank and all the tops on every maple was dieing.

[PerryW]

funny you mention ash. I cut all the pine 20 years ago near my sugar house and Ash and Sugar Maple grew up in the area. I've spent the last 7 days or so cutting every ash tree I can find to release my young sugar maples. With any luck, they will big enough to tap before I am too old to tap them.

[mzstein]

We are only about 30 miles from the start of EAB here in SE Mi
and it has changed the landscape. Pretty much EVERY ash from
sapling to old growth is gone. The trees in our bush have reached
a stage where they are falling over or snapping in the middle and
hanging up. We've been cleaning them up a bit at a time.

Has really changed the wood though, lots of new undergrowth.

I've asked a couple extension people about it but never got a good
answer, maybe someone here knows. In our woods there are a ton
of Ash saplings either from seeds or roots. Will these trees develop
as the EAB has moved on or will they just return to take these
out too ?? Not sure how small of a tree they can kill but we have
a lot of small ones dead.

I keep hoping for some extra cold winters as it seems to be our only
defense against some of these invaders.

[Monster Maples]

My question is.... We have a bunch of ash that are already down, and some that are dying. With a new sugar house on the horizon, would these be good for framing lumber? They are a hardwood, so my thinking is get them used up while they are still good. Thoughts?

[PerryW]

My question is.... We have a bunch of ash that are already down, and some that are dying. With a new sugar house on the horizon, would these be good for framing lumber? They are a hardwood, so my thinking is get them used up while they are still good. Thoughts?

I don't think ash makes good framing lumber. Like most hardwood, it seems to split unless pre-drilled. It does however make great firewood for people who procrastinate as it burns green.

[archerybs]

My question is.... We have a bunch of ash that are already down, and some that are dying. With a new sugar house on the horizon, would these be good for framing lumber? They are a hardwood, so my thinking is get them used up while they are still good. Thoughts?


I just cut a few ash the other day to use for my new sugar house. I'm planning on using it for the posts and beams. I agree with PerryW though, if cut into 2x's it will probably split, unless predrilled.

[Chief62]

I have a 2 story 20x24 barn that was built in the late 70's by my grandfather, the entire barn is green ash. Works fine.

[Kev]

I have a 2 story 20x24 barn that was built in the late 70's by my grandfather, the entire barn is green ash. Works fine.

it also is nice for cabinets and such if dry.
but as framing members use it green, it is strong and lasts a long time.

[Michael Greer]

A very reputable nurseryman here in Saint Lawrence County told me that they'd be gone soon. In the Northwest part of the county there are very large stands dying off, though the forestry folks say we don't have the bugs yet. "Ash Yellows" is the suspected culprit here.
I'm very concerned because great swaths across the northern end of the county are in excess of 90% ash. If this die-off continues, half the county will be de-forested. It's potentially a fire hazard at some point.

[bigschuss]

A very reputable nurseryman here in Saint Lawrence County told me that they'd be gone soon.

My best friend is a Biology professor at Kutztown State University, and he told me last summer, that in his opinion, ash will be gone from the Northeast in our lifetimes. Whether it goes extinct or not is a different question. Will the roots live on, like those of the American Chestnut, continueing to send up new shoots? Or once the tree dies, is that it? Dead.

Additionally, nearly 95% of the 6 cords of firewood I bought this fall was ash. I asked my supplier why, and he responded that all of this state contracts in NH, VT, and MA are selecting ash for removal before they lose it to the emerald ash borer.

It's frightening how quickly this beetle destroyed a major genus in North America.

[brookledge]

I know I'm working at eliminating it on my property. Seems such a waste to give up on it but contrary to the maple it is not worth spending a lot of money to combat the spread of the EAB. But the ALB is only in suburban areas and not forest(hopefully) so it is easier to cut down and treat the maples with imidacloprid. It is such a good hardwood. One nice feature about it is you can burn it green especially if you run out of fire wood
Keith