Used RO questions & concerns

[Bucket Head]

I'm thinking about doing the unthinkable- buying a factory-built piece of equipment. Yes, I must have hit my head, lol. Anyway, I have the opportunity to buy an older (unsure of exact age) Airablo RO. I'm not certain if its a 160 or a 250, either way its not a big one but would be a decent size to start out with. I have a few questions regarding it and was hoping to get some insight here.

First, anyone here ever use a 160 or 250 from this company? If so, were you happy with it? Pro's and/or con's with this machine??

The other question is about recirculation pumps. This RO does not have one. I know many RO's do not have one and some other Traders are trying to install one on their rigs. How would not having a pump affect this models performance? Would adding one make a big difference? Would not having one be reason to steer away from it?

I know I have not provided much info on it, but I don't know a lot about it to start with, and I know little about RO's. What concerns would you guy's have with a machine like this? Like I said its a decent size to start with and I'm not looking to set any concentration level or production records with it. If it only takes sap to 5%, good. If it takes it to 7 or 8%, great. My primary goal is to cut down my boil time and whatever water it takes out is water I don't have to boil. Adding taps and making more syrup will be step two, if possible, down the road. But I need some advice before I go ahead with any decisions.

Thank's,
Steve

[Bucket Head]

Nobody has any experience with one of these? No concerns with it not having the circ. pump?

Still would like to hear from some folks who might have some knowledge or advice on this company's machine's. I'll check back later.

Thank's,
Steve

[WMF]

Airablo was in Quebec and made D&G and Leader Springtech Ro's . The company had a massive fire and now D&G builds them.

Most have a recirc pump built into the main pressure pump that works OK. Find out the model number and post a pic of the pressure pump on the unit.

[shane hickey]

Can you run an ro dry? And if not do you manually have to shut it off before you run out of sap?
shane

[mapleack]

Can you run an ro dry? And if not do you manually have to shut it off before you run out of sap?
shane

No, running dry will burn up pumps. Most RO's have auto low pressure shutdowns for this reason.

[Jeff E]

As I understand it, the recirc pump 'agitates' the sap around the membrane, keeping it from plugging as quickly. I can proccess about 4500 gallons before needing to clean or rinse my membrane, and my RO has the recirc pump. I have heard folks say it helps a lot, but even if it doubles the capacity, you can do a lot of sap without one.

Airablo has been around and has a good rep. The actual condition of the membrane is what is important. Was it maintained well? Stored properly?

Another use of the term recirculation in the RO world is for running the sap through the machine more than once, really cranking the concentration up. That is done by taking your concentrate output and dumping back in your storage tank. No special or extra pump needed.

[Bucket Head]

Jeff,

I know the company has been around a while. But like every company regardless of what they make, there's good models and then there might be lemons. So I was wondering if anyone had experience with this companies smaller units.

Yes, the recirculation helps to keep the membranes from fouling as quick. But because of my limited RO knowledge, I did'nt know if they are considered a "must have" or not. I was told many smaller units don't have that pump on them, but I don't know how true that is.

Exact condition of the membranes is unknown right now, but they have been sent out for cleaning and flow testing. Hopefully they will be within specs.

I know its common to "recirculate" sap for a higher concentration, but I probably would not do that. If I were to get this machine I would just run the sap through once and go with it. Whatever percentage of water it takes out would be a huge help for us.

Hopefully we'll hear from someone who has operated these smaller units. Thanks for getting back to me.

Steve

[vtmaplemaker]

I have a Airblo 500, and I am very happy with its performance... It does not have a recirc pump on it, but is plumbed to recirc using the high pres. pump... Mine has a 7.5 hp pump, and i will bet I can do numbers comparable to a new 600 with the recirc pump, and a 5 hp high pres. pump..

[Bucket Head]

Thanks Maplemaker for the info. Your machine is bigger than the one I'm looking at but its good to hear good things about them. I'm uncertain of the ratings on this unit and I'll have to figure out if it recirculates without a third pump. Thats interesting since I thought all RO's had either two or three pumps.

Anyone else out there with Airablo experience?

Thanks,
Steve

[danno]

I don't have an airblo and I'm still learning as well, but I'm not sure how the high pressure pump could agitate the membranes like a recirc pump. The HP pump could re-circ to raise the concentrate %, but not to agitate.

My RO is rated 240 an hour with a 3 hp high pressure pump rated at 4 gpm, thus 240 gph. I believe the recirc pumps after the HP pump will recirc to agitate at a much higher gpm across the membranes, thus causing agitation.

If your HP pump will only produce low gpm at high pressure, re-circing the sap back through the the HP pump won't cause agitation, but will cause higher concentrate %.

Or, as I'm just learing, I may have no idea what I'm talking about;)

[Bucket Head]

Danno,

I'm not sure of the pumps and pluming on these things either. How many pumps are on your machine? Also, your signature says "Sap Brothers RO". I've never heard of that name. Or do you mean Small Brothers? Just wondering.

Did Waterloo- Small ever sell Airablo machines? Because if I'm remembering correctly, the machine I'm looking at says Airablo on one side and on the other it says something about Waterloo.

Either way, I'm just wondering how these small Airablo units rank.

Thanks,
Steve

[vtmaplemaker]

Did Waterloo- Small ever sell Airablo machines? Because if I'm remembering correctly, the machine I'm looking at says Airablo on one side and on the other it says something about Waterloo.



I am not sure who used to distribute them, but I saw a 7 post springtech last week, and it was the exact same as my airblo, plus a few membranes... the high pres. vessle was the exact same, and it had no seperate recirc pump. They where getting in the neighborhood of 3500 gph a hour through that one..

I am sure if you could see the new springtech in about the same size as the one you are looking at, (if they still make them that size) it would be almost exactly the same..

[Bucket Head]

Yes, thats what I'm thinking too. A couple of guys have told me they think their still using the same pumps that they have always used. So the only things they have changed are the overall size (more compact units these days) and maybe the framework material. Most new RO's I've seen are stainless or aluminum framed and the one I'm looking at is steel.

Steve

[moeh1]

Brent went to a 160 after the Merlins, you should check with him.

[shane hickey]

where can a guy buy a circulation pump for an ro, and do they make them 3 phase? Thanks Shane

[Brent]

I have had an Airablo 160 for one season and I was quite happy with what it did. At the end of the season I screwed up the membranes, original 5 year old PVD-1's and just put a new set of XLE-4040's in it.

Check the Airablo you are considering. If it is built like mine it has a recirculation built in, but not with a separate pump.

Look at the bottom of the pressure vessels. If there are 2 ports on the side near the bottom, separated by roughly 8 to 10" then it has the same recirculation built in as mine. The ports are about 1". The permeate comes right off the bottom end and is quite small, maybe 1/4" so you won't confuse that. You'll see that on of the ports on the side leads back to the pump side of the plumbing ... that's the re-circulation.

From what I've read here, spending less than $ 400 total for the 2 new XLE-4040 membranes should increase the performance of this rig quite a bit. Reality will set in about March 15th.

Happy Holidays

[paul]

I got this card in the mail this week you might be interested in www.waterguy.com. the card shows 3 ro`s 200gal, 350gal,and 500gal they range from 3955.00 to 5955.00in price. they are maple sap ro`s made in the USA

[Bucket Head]

Brent,

I could'nt tell you about the ports. I don't remember the set-up- I did'nt look that closely there. I know it's an Airablo Lynx 160, according to the owner. I am uncertain of its age. Its older than yours I'm thinking. You said your membranes were 5 years old? Do you have a photo of yours posted anywhere?

I have seen advertisements for the Waterguys units and a few guys on here have purchased one. I'm sure they'll be happy with them. There are quite a few start-up outfits out there offering smaller machines. Those folks and the evaporator companies are buying the same parts off the shelves of the RO parts suppliers and assembling them. However, the start-up companies are charging reasonable prices for the machines...

Steve

[WMF]

The Waterguys Ro's dont have membrane recirculation and that is why they are cheap.
They treat sap as if it were water but with sap the membrane surface develops a thin layer of very concentrated sugar and minerals and whatever junk you didnt filter out of your sap and permeate flow goes down and fouling rate goes up. You then turn up the system pressure which only forces the foulants harder against the membrane surface and makes it even harder to clean.
Ro's meant for water dont need recirculation and will perform fine on water but will be a dissapointment on sap - plain and simple.

The parts needed to put together an RO with good membrane recirculation flow are most definately not off the shelf of any RO supplier I know of - except for CDL, Lapierre, D&G/Airablo and The H2O/Thor units.

[wiam]

Brent, where did you get 2 XLEs for under $400?

Will

[Bucket Head]

WMF,

I don't know what the Waterguys do or don't offer compared to others. However, you most certainly can purchase parts off the shelf and have an RO that performs just like the smaller, evaporator factory units. I know because I spent quite a bit of time this month calling and talking to some of these suppliers. Since I was planning on building a small unit, I located most of the parts, as well as the three pumps needed, for an RO that would do 150+/- gph. In fact, there are folks on this site that have built small RO's, with recirculation capabilities, with readily availiable parts.

Reveiw the old osmosis posts and you will find photo's and parts lists for some of these machines. Or feel free to e-mail me and I'll give you some phone numbers. Then you can shop around and compare for yourself.

Steve

[Brent]

Sorry, I lied. I got them from Atlantic RO at $ 225 each.

This aging process is a bitch.

They tell you that as you get older, you'll lose your mind.
What they don't tell you is that you won't miss it.
I'm not quite at that stage yet.

[Bucket Head]

Hey, what a coincidence! Atlantic RO is one the suppliers I spoke to.

WMF- Theres a good place to start. Dial 1-910-457-9336, ask for Joe.

Steve

[Jim Brown]

Guys I think everyone in Mapleland got the mailing from the RO water guys last week.
We got them in NW pa also


Jim

[Bucket Head]

The Waterguy had an add in the Maple Syrup Digest also. Theres an ad for small RO's in the current Maple News classifieds too. I don't know how how they all compare to each other but anyone can call them up and talk to them. See what they have, see what the evaporator companies have, weigh their asking prices, and go from there.

Steve

[tstew]

I have been doing some searching and am looking for a little guidance. Over the summer I purchased an Aiablo Lynx 300gph ro. I have never run an RO or been around one but its time to expand and the RO was cheaper than a new evap. I am looking for any information anyone out there may have on these. I have talked to the local D&G dealer and he was checking with them to see if could find a manual to go with it. Never heard back from him. So if anyone has any literature or guidance I would appreciate it. Just not sure of pressures I should be running and the cleaning process. Any help would be appreciatted. For now I will keep going through the RO posts. Thanks

[Bucket Head]

Tstew,

Congratulations, you'll love it.....and we need to talk! I purchased an Airablo Lynx 160 last January, as it was explained to me, but theres no info on the machine saying that. I would like to compare the two machines. I too contacted D&G directly, and got nothing. I was told the "old stuff does'nt have much for literature". I was able to determine the age of my unit, but thats about it. I have the instructions (not from the factory) on how to operate mine, from the previous owner. After comparing machines, they might have the same valves and plumbing, they might be identical except for high pressure pumps, so my operating instructions might work for yours. Are all the controls and valves numbered on your machine? Its pretty simple to operate, you just need to know what valves need to be where, and when.

I'll send you a PM.

Steve

[Brent]

So if anyone has any literature or guidance I would appreciate it.

go to the Leader Evaporator web site and under Information Center you will find manuals for the Springtech systems. Airablo made them for Leader. See if you can match your rig to one of these manuals. They are terrible bastardized English from Quebec, but with a little imagination you'll figure out what they really meant.

[CBOYER]

They are terrible bastardized English from Quebec

you have to see how somes traduce in french before saying something like this...

[tstew]

Thanks for the replies guys. Bucket Head yes all the valves are numbered the numbering process used is a little confusing because they skipped numbers and the numbers are all over the place. Mine does have a plate on the front giving make model and serial number. Its definitly a Lynx 300 based on the plate mine has 2 4"x40" membranes and a 5HP high pressure pump. I will send u a pm. thanks