Makeing syrup for uncle sam

[Rhino]

Tax question..... We purcheased 60 acres of woods next to ours last year, We have been tapping this for the last 13 or so years, in fact the previous owner let us put lines up in it. Right after we bought it, I called the assessor and told him that the property changed hands and we would like to put it in a agricultural tax bracket. I know the previous owner could of also but he never did.....anyway.....I got the tax papers for it yesterday and it still is $900. All our other woodlands are in a MFL program so they are like $62.00 each 40 acres. This ag. tax is something new to me, so what are some of you guys paying. I know each state and county are dif. but it would be interesting to compare. Now i am thinking of putting this 60 acres also in a state MFL program after seeing this. How this township did it was, they just split the value of the woods in half. Is that the common way for them to tax ag land?

[Bucket Head]

I'm no tax expert. What is a MFL program? All I know is a lot of land owners around here who used to get a reduction in taxes for farm use don't anymore. They keep upping the amount of income generated to qualify it for farm use. Like I said I'm not an expert so I don't know how its being done. I just know of some farm land that has always been used for farming around here, and is still used for farming, is not eligible anymore for the discount. Every town is different, but I can't see where a field or pasture with nothing on it other than crops or cows gets taxed the same as developed property.

Steve

[Rhino]

MFL (Managed Forest Law) is a state program where a landowner can enroll his woodland properties in it for 25 or 50 years. The state ask the landowner what his objectives are for the woods such as wildlife areas, timber production (saw logs), and like us maple syrup procuction. They (The state) will draw up a timber harvest plan for the land owner and set dates that the harvest has to be met by. By qualifying for the program you can elect to have the land either closed to the public or open to the public such as hunting, hikeing, etc. If you choose to have it closed....taxes are higher.....have it open and cheaper taxes. Heres the other catch, When the timber harvest is done the state comes in for 5% of the total sale for pulp wood. I forget what the % is for saw logs. The way taxes are, 5% of the total is a far cry less then what the taxes would be year after year. Our properties have been in this program for awhile now. I know they went up with the taxes for the new applicants. We were also lucky enough to have a state forestor do all the marking in our woods for nothing. Now you have to hire a independent forestor to mark and that can be expensive. I can only say good things about our dealings in this program. Some people might say or not like the state dabling in their woods business but with the amount of woods we own, we could never afford to keep all of it if it was taxed regularly. The other benifit is, people can't just go in and slaughter (clear cut) their hardwood stand down once it's in the program. If they do, they pay a penalty and all the back taxes that they saved. Mature aspen is a clear cut always but it does protect the hardwoods from greed. This is just the basic ins and outs of this program, I'm sure some new applicants in Wisconsin can fill us in but i think it should be close to the same just a diff. tax rate (higher).

[jmayerl]

All I can say is that the amount of tax per acre has really gone up since our family 1st enrolled back in the mid 70's. I believe that our old rate was around $.50 per acre. The new rate is $8.34, which is still a pretty good deal. I am personal friends with our DNR forester and have been told we can still do pretty much what we want with the land. We will be going through the forest this winter and marking timber with him(it is due up for logging). He said that if there are certain trees or groups we want left behind that it should be fine which is nice since by the time you pay the logger and DNR, there may be about $500 left from our forty.

[maple flats]

I don't know about MFL but an ag assessment requires that you produce at least $10,000 for 2 yrs to qualify. The proof required is your tax return for the last 2 years. If you thus qualify you get an ag assessment. You must have at least 10 acres to qualify, if memory serves me. The state then publishes the land values depending on the soil type. Your soil type is in a map at the Soil and water conservation district serving your county. From that times your acreage is your assessment and the tax is that figure times the rate per $1,000 for your tax district.
When you qualify it goes by the owner of record on the 1st of March in the year preceeding the tax year. If your ownership was not in place by March 1st, you wait another year.

[Rhino]

mapleflats, Sure is more complicated over there. Our asessor never mentioned anything about $10,000 proof of income. Maybe he just forgot? Anyway, we made the decision to put it in MFL. Tomorrow I will go and get the application. Even if the new enrollments are around $8.00 an acre, it will still be a saveings. Thanks for the input.

[parkerfamilymaple]

mapleflats, Sure is more complicated over there. Our asessor never mentioned anything about $10,000 proof of income. Maybe he just forgot? Anyway, we made the decision to put it in MFL. Tomorrow I will go and get the application. Even if the new enrollments are around $8.00 an acre, it will still be a saveings. Thanks for the input.

You do not have to show 10000 in income if you are selling sap to someone who does gross that much. It does not all have to come off of your property.

[Clarkfield Farms]

To my fellow New Yorkers: The equivalent program in NY is known as a Forest Management Plan. Different areas have different requirements, particularly the Adirondacks and Tug Hill. Good program for lowering your taxes, within reason; less impact on school taxes, which are what kill us around here. I'll post up one of the approved local foresters if anyone's interested. There is a process involved, working with DECon. Yeah, I know, it's DEC, but it seems so much more approriate written that way.:mrgreen:

- Tim

[Clarkfield Farms]

That makes me wonder - if I post the guy's contact info/website, is that promoting or advertising someone's business and goes against the rules? I read the rules but can't really reconcile this issue with them. So, if the mods or admins would please let me know, either way. If it's okay, I'll give a link; otherwise, just search or contact DECon, as I recall it used to be run out of the Herkimer office. Don't know anymore. First time I worked with the program was October, 1991. Things have changed.

OK, like I said, lemme know! Thanks.:emb:

[Pete S]

Is whatyou're actually referring to is "use value"? We have several acres under plow, some fallow and some wooded. They all have different values, but nothing close to building site acreage.

Note this price does vary a bit> I would speak directly to your Assessor.

NOTE this I believe is "unique" to WI to help out farmers who own LOTS of land!

[BryanEx]

That makes me wonder - if I post the guy's contact info/website, is that promoting or advertising someone's business and goes against the rules?
That would be fine YeastPimp. Referring someone to a business or organization in context with the discussion is far different than becoming the advertising section for one specific business. Sourcing products, services, or information is a big part of what Maple Trader members can help with.

- Bryan

[Clarkfield Farms]

OK, thank you. I'm not 100% certain this falls within the original topic, maybe it should go under New York specific...

Anyways, what I'm posting is extremely oversimplified. There's more to it than this. But that's something that you can find out more of by contacting the DEC and then determine if it's beneficial to you.

For those of you in central NY, here's the website for Steve Bick - http://www.northeastforests.com/

I talked to him briefly yesterday about whether or not this would be beneficial to maple producers that own the land and he said yes, definitely, IF you don't plan on developing the land for commercial or residential purposes within the next 10-15 years, since part of the mission of the Plan is to preserve forest land. And, not ALL of the land needs to be put into the program, for instance if you intend to turn part of the property into pasture, or sell off road frontage lots, etc. But, the portion included is the only part that gets the tax reduction; the rest of it stays at whatever prorated current assessed value and is subject to normal changes in assessment by the taxing authority (municipality/Town).

Anyways, Steve's a good guy and very knowledgeable about this and can help guide you through the process. When it comes time to mark the property lines, either he can do that for you for an additional fee or you can do it; the acceptable methods are painting and/or blazing. Make sure your neighbor is not at war with you if you choose to blaze. If you're uncertain of the lines, I'm offering my help free of charge as long as certain criteria are met, including but not limited to: The deed is clear enough to make sense of (i.e., more than a metes and bounds description consisting entirely of such things as "thence along MacAllistair's southernmost pasture to the hemlock stump as it stood in 1857, said stump being about 18 feet more or less from the right rear corner of Haskin's barn that burned down in the summer of 1932..."); you're local to me, i.e., not more than an hour or so away; and - um, well... I'm exhausted and heading for bed. Contact me if it's even something that you'd want me to help with, I'll probably be able to think better then.

It's a good program. When we first used it in 1991, it reduced the Town/County/Highway portion of the property taxes by 80%. The school tax reduction is far less, but it still beats not getting any reduction at all. In any case, money saved is never a bad thing. Keep in mind certain incidentals, such as: the County (and maybe Town, nowadays) get a stumpage fee. It doesn't amount to much, and is only assessed when there's an authorized timber harvest, in which case you've made money from the harvest anyhow. It goes out to bid, highest bid that best suits what your property's Plan calls for gets it. The mob - I mean, local government - gets a piece a dah action, y'know whad I mean? But it's not at all bad. IIRC, we hardly noticed the small stumpage fee. Maybe around $100,000 or so... JUST KIDDING!!! The harvest was entirely made up of mature black cherry on the property, and it was sold to Harden Furniture in McConnellsville. I think they took something like 20% of the cherry, and there was still a lot of it left. That was on about 300 acres.

Anyways, that's about it for now.

- Tim